[Calidecks]

Another update: I texted husband letting him know I had not yet received his punch list. He called me and said he was having his Mothers contractor come in tomorrow to give an unbiased opinion of what he thought needed to be on the punch list and to get educated from someone who has been in the business 60 years. ( how old would this guy be?) This company is very well known here nevertheless. I told him that was a good idea and I was fine with that. I did ask him if he got a bid from him (since he got such glowing reviews from this guys mother). He said no he didn't. I'm sure his price would have been double mine and deservingly so. He has a long standing well-known reputation. Any thoughts on this?

How could it be an unbiased opinion when it's in this contractors best interest to side with his customers son?

 

[dom-mas]

If the company is well established and doing well they don't need this little bit of work, they will give an honest opinion as a favour to a past client. Like T-town girl bringing the contractor with her the last time.

Regardless of any punchlist they need to re-imburse you for materials at the absolute least. I wouldn't step foot back there with any tools without the material payment, preferably everything but the final

 

[T-towngirl]

How could it be an unbiased opinion when it's in this contractors best interest to side with his customers son?

That's what I'm thinking. Will this be an unbiased opinion when his mother just spent $120,000.00 with his company?

 

[griz]

Another update: I texted husband letting him know I had not yet received his punch list. He called me and said he was having his Mothers contractor come in tomorrow to give an unbiased opinion of what he thought needed to be on the punch list and to get educated from someone who has been in the business 60 years. ( how old would this guy be?) This company is very well known here nevertheless. I told him that was a good idea and I was fine with that. I did ask him if he got a bid from him (since he got such glowing reviews from this guys mother). He said no he didn't. I'm sure his price would have been double mine and deservingly so. He has a long standing well-known reputation. Any thoughts on this?

It is called a Peer to Peer review and they usually end up with no finger pointing. Unless you get one of those outfits with a long pedigree whose job it is to head hunt.

However, in your case the established guy coming in may just have the cojones to tell it like it is. What does he have to lose?

 

[TBsnutz]

I used to work for a guy that didn't charge a deposit for materials or labor up front, and he was forever complaining about clients that hadn't payed up, and that it was all on his credit card. He was afraid of losing business by asking for $$ up front.

We built a deck and halfway through, the client decided she wanted it to be 50% larger. To all of us that means at least 50% more materials and at least 50% more labor.

After the larger sized deck was built, she refused to pay above the original amount. Not sure if he ever collected on that third of a deck he bought for her.

When I was running smaller projects, I would place an order at whatever store the client preferred, and then I would have them call in with a card to purchase the order. They were happy to not be paying a markup.

I built a stone retaining wall and an irrigated cedar planter box for the same lady. I only worked T&M, and never had any issues with her or getting payed.
T&M is still my favorite way to bill... Its fair, and surprise sub-surface existing problems remain the clients problem and not mine.

 

[T-towngirl]

I used to work for a guy that didn't charge a deposit for materials or labor up front, and he was forever complaining about clients that hadn't payed up, and that it was all on his credit card. He was afraid of losing business by asking for $$ up front.

We built a deck and halfway through, the client decided she wanted it to be 50% larger. To all of us that means at least 50% more materials and at least 50% more labor.

After the larger sized deck was built, she refused to pay above the original amount. Not sure if he ever collected on that third of a deck he bought for her.

When I was running smaller projects, I would place an order at whatever store the client preferred, and then I would have them call in with a card to purchase the order. They were happy to not be paying a markup.

I built a stone retaining wall and an irrigated cedar planter box for the same lady. I only worked T&M, and never had any issues with her or getting payed.
T&M is still my favorite way to bill... Its fair, and surprise sub-surface existing problems remain the clients problem and not mine.

Yes T&M is an easy and safe way to charge but most people won't go for it. They want a bid. It's too much of an unknown, especially if its a big job. I do have clients pay for materials such as tile, flooring, plumbing trims, etc. on their own or w credit card over the phone and it works well. All my clients want a bid.

 

[T-towngirl]

It is called a Peer to Peer review and they usually end up with no finger pointing. Unless you get one of those outfits with a long pedigree whose job it is to head hunt.

However, in your case the established guy coming in may just have the cojones to tell it like it is. What does he have to lose?

Hopefully so!

 

[TBsnutz]

yeah, I need to work on my bid skills...
Afraid of getting bent over!

I hope you get payed, you sound like a respectable professional.

You could always blacklist them locally, make sure everyone knows what crazies they are!

 

[svronthmve]

What's with you guys not putting a markup on materials you arrange for with these customers?

Do you not have any respect for your time invested, skills and experience?

That should be part of the knowledge your customers are paying for.

 

[T-towngirl]

It depends on the situation. Sometimes customers have been shopping way before they call me. They may have already picked out their tile, wood floors, etc. In this case the customers had picked out the tile at a wholesale/retail tile store and said they were going to buy it. They wanted me to install. I bid on the install only. Then after they spoke to said tile store, they were informed by the tile store that they could give a trade discount if a trades person purchased it. I told them I would do that. I didn't purchase through the store though, I just called Prosource and bought thru them. Prosource puts an automatic markup for the customer and gives me 10%. Anyway, it was a good faith favor I threw in on the job and now I have not been reimbursed fo this favor.

Much of the time I bring samples to my customers house and we work together making choices. I can then include materials w a markup as well as time spent.

 

[T-towngirl]

That being said, if my customer pays over the phone for materials, I am getting at least 10% on those materials and they feel they are getting a deal as well, so everyone wins.

 

[T-towngirl]

yeah, I need to work on my bid skills...
Afraid of getting bent over!

I hope you get payed, you sound like a respectable professional.

You could always blacklist them locally, make sure everyone knows what crazies they are!

Thank you very much! My crew is so protective of me and pissed at these people...if things don't go well they will let everyone know. All the trades can really spread the word.

 

[mreynolds]

I question whether she is actually going to have them re-done. If she called me to re-do your work, I would think to myself, "If she's not happy with this paint job, she won't be happy with the job I do either." I think she is just trying to not pay for the job. With a little research I'll bet there are other contractors out there who haven't been paid either.
Earlier I posted about a $3000 bill that the owner would not pay. When I filed the lien, I found out they owed $54,000 to other people. I had no idea. One of the people owed was the guy's father. The father told me, If I can't collect, there is no way you'll collect.
Your attitude of moving on and pushing through to make money on the next job is the right one.

Yes there are those that thrive in doing just that. I worked (for other contractors) on a house twice and he didn't pay them either. When it became my time to work on it I was a sub for a friend to do the metal roof. I told they guy "do not work for this guy". He claimed that his daughter married his son so it would be OK. The job was CF panel re-roof and I did it for him but I told him I needed my money when the last screw is in. I also told him about the minor oil caning that goes with CF panel and to explain it to his client. Long story short, even after manufacture looked at my roof with no fault in install he still didn't pay his daughter-in laws daddy.

Just the first draw was all.

 

[T-towngirl]

Yes there are those that thrive in doing just that. I worked (for other contractors) on a house twice and he didn't pay them either. When it became my time to work on it I was a sub for a friend to do the metal roof. I told they guy "do not work for this guy". He claimed that his daughter married his son so it would be OK. The job was CF panel re-roof and I did it for him but I told him I needed my money when the last screw is in. I also told him about the minor oil caning that goes with CF panel and to explain it to his client. Long story short, even after manufacture looked at my roof with no fault in install he still didn't pay his daughter-in laws daddy.

Just the first draw was all.

Wow! That's terrible. And when you really think about it, it's stealing.

 

[mreynolds]

Yes . It really is. The guy is well versed in contract law and makes a game of it. On the very first time I met him I was working for a friend of my dads helping him build a redwood deck. You know how expensive that was. He was bragging to my boss about how he got away without paying the guy that did the carport.

Yes spreading the word is the best thing to do with people like that. Some still wont listen though.

 

[Brian Peters]

This thread reminded me of a story I heard a long time ago about a mason who built a chimney, people warned him that the customer had a reputation for not paying. He said "well he'll pay me. " When he built the chimney, part way up he put in a clear pane of glass. He finished the job and sure enough the guy wouldn't pay up, so he left... later when the weather got cold and the guy tried to build a fire...smoked him out!
So he calls up the mason and says "hey, my chimney doesn't work, not at all! " The mason says "when I get my money it will work, I promise. "
Guy pays, mason climbs up and drops a brick down the chimney to break the glass, and everything is settled.
Anyway this was years ago, before the days of suing like it is today, probably wouldn't work nowadays.

 

[svronthmve]

This thread reminded me of a story I heard a long time ago about a mason who built a chimney, people warned him that the customer had a reputation for not paying. He said "well he'll pay me. " When he built the chimney, part way up he put in a clear pane of glass. He finished the job and sure enough the guy wouldn't pay up, so he left... later when the weather got cold and the guy tried to build a fire...smoked him out!
So he calls up the mason and says "hey, my chimney doesn't work, not at all! " The mason says "when I get my money it will work, I promise. "
Guy pays, mason climbs up and drops a brick down the chimney to break the glass, and everything is settled.
Anyway this was years ago, before the days of suing like it is today, probably wouldn't work nowadays.

Sure it would. Glass still blocks smoke these days! :laughing:

 

[svronthmve]

I do so appreciate those customers who rat themselves out during estimates.

They tell me how awful every other contractor was who was there before me, or who they didn't pay, etc....

Allows me to politely excuse myself before I become their next "victim"!

 

[Live_oak]

I do so appreciate those customers who rat themselves out during estimates.

They tell me how awful every other contractor was who was there before me, or who they didn't pay, etc....

Allows me to politely excuse myself before I become their next "victim"!

Yeah, most of the ones you want to fire before they hire you are all too willing to tell on themselves if you'll just listen to them. If all they can say is how expensive everyone else is, pack up right there and move on. You don't even need to give them an estimate. If all they have to say about any contractor is how bad they were, they won't have anything nice to say about you either. If they had to go to court with someone else, they might be inclined to do the same with you. Most people love to tell you their business and don't know when to shut up. Thankfully.

 

[mstrat]

Hi everyone. I got a text from the husband today (Sunday) asking me to call him and that he would like me to come back. I have not called him back. They both stated they had hired someone else at the last meeting. They were also adamant they were not interested in any of my before mentioned solutions to satisfy them and get paid. What has changed? After being screamed at by his wife, I do not think I can step foot back in that house. The job is finished. The money is owed. There are two or three spots they can obsess over but I have already contacted my attorney. Opinions?

Due diligence says at least return his call...let him know the bill is due, and you'll need paid before another minute is wasted with them.