all Im saying is

your remembered not by the 1000 houses you brick great, but by that one that came out bad.

And excuse me but, because someone is a member of this forum, doesn't mean they are right.

I was not asked for references when I joined

 

But they at the least should reimburse for the materials they said they would pay for.

 

I am only hearing her side of the story for 1, Pictures help 2. 3. i never met anyone who said they did a bad job when not paid. 3.

She sent pictures, nothing about those pics told me she did a bad job. They want oak to not flash the grain after paint. Its like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.

 

I'm just saying that their are 2 sides to every story, and in those picts you really cant see much.
I get alot of work from a Engineer who asks me to tag along when their are claims like this.

Last year I saw 14 jobs where the HO claimed fault. 12 of them had every right not only to pay them, but to ask for damages
And every single one of the builders said they have done a great job.
Not a single one accepted the faults.

so, said this the odds are against the builder

 

I'm just saying that their are 2 sides to every story, and in those picts you really cant see much.
I get alot of work from a Engineer who asks me to tag along when their are claims like this.

Last year I saw 14 jobs where the HO claimed fault. 12 of them had every right not only to pay them, but to ask for damages
And every single one of the builders said they have done a great job.
Not a single one accepted the faults.

so, said this the odds are against the builder

Bruno. Wouldn't you agree that perfection is impossible? And if a customer is a a hole they can find any reason to hold your money hostage ? My work , your work , or any one on this web site . no one can achieve perfection with zero flaws .As minor as they may be. It's just something we all shoot for. To build it like it was our own. And from the pics I have seen it looks like a paint job any of us would be proud of. You seem pretty insensitive to getting screwed by a a hole home owner. Wait till it happens to you and they bring in a guy like you to agree job is not up to par

 

Dont get me wrong, here, to make a claim against a builder, you first need to get an adjuster(which has to be an Engineer)
The HO calls him, and he calls me to get as to not get his hands dirty.

I explained how many I've seen, And we are not there to nit pic someone elses work.

We are there as professionals to give a professional opinion as the the HO claims, Then our results are sent to Both parties involved, and will be used in court if required.

Usually he has me stop by first to see if his services are required,

 

Dont get me wrong, here, to make a claim against a builder, you first need to get an adjuster(which has to be an Engineer) The HO calls him, and he calls me to get as to not get his hands dirty. I explained how many I've seen, And we are not there to nit pic someone elses work. We are there as professionals to give a professional opinion as the the HO claims, Then our results are sent to Both parties involved, and will be used in court if required. Usually he has me stop by first to see if his services are required,

Who pays the adjuster? The HO?

 

yes, most of the time, a couple of times when the builder thinks he right, they will do 50/50.
a few times the builder will call to have an adjuster look at the work because the HO isnt paying and using the quality of the work as a reason.

 

yes, most of the time, a couple of times when the builder thinks he right, they will do 50/50. a few times the builder will call to have an adjuster look at the work because the HO isnt paying and using the quality of the work as a reason.

My point is that the adjuster is going to cater to the one who pays them. Don't you think it creates a bias?

 

Let me guess "those darn squeaky floors."Guess you would have to tear it out and start over. 10-12 That's a really high number. But then again a lot of work for you

 

Hi Bruno, I can appreciate the Devils advocate side and I am not faulting you for your position but let's keep a few things in mind:

1. My contract was x amount deposit, draw at 50% completion of job, and final payment upon completion. Also they were to reimburse for tile and paint upon receipt delivery. I am not asking for final payment!!!!! I am asking for 2nd draw and reimbursement for receipts. They can hold final payment until I do their punch list.

2. This is a paint job and tile backsplash not a remodel.

3. This is a pickiness issue not a hack job.

4. I was nice and happy to go above and beyond to satisfy the customer, but they refused 2nd draw and reimbursement. They fired me so as not to pay.

 

They fired me and would not let me fix anything. And now the husband wants me to but does not want to pay anything past the deposit. Who would do another thing for these people without getting some $ first? All I have received is deposit and I am out twice that amount.

 

Another update: I texted husband letting him know I had not yet received his punch list. He called me and said he was having his Mothers contractor come in tomorrow to give an unbiased opinion of what he thought needed to be on the punch list and to get educated from someone who has been in the business 60 years. ( how old would this guy be?) This company is very well known here nevertheless. I told him that was a good idea and I was fine with that. I did ask him if he got a bid from him (since he got such glowing reviews from this guys mother). He said no he didn't. I'm sure his price would have been double mine and deservingly so. He has a long standing well-known reputation. Any thoughts on this?

 

How could it be an unbiased opinion when it's in this contractors best interest to side with his customers son?

 

If the company is well established and doing well they don't need this little bit of work, they will give an honest opinion as a favour to a past client. Like T-town girl bringing the contractor with her the last time.

Regardless of any punchlist they need to re-imburse you for materials at the absolute least. I wouldn't step foot back there with any tools without the material payment, preferably everything but the final

 

I used to work for a guy that didn't charge a deposit for materials or labor up front, and he was forever complaining about clients that hadn't payed up, and that it was all on his credit card. He was afraid of losing business by asking for $$ up front.

We built a deck and halfway through, the client decided she wanted it to be 50% larger. To all of us that means at least 50% more materials and at least 50% more labor.

After the larger sized deck was built, she refused to pay above the original amount. Not sure if he ever collected on that third of a deck he bought for her.

When I was running smaller projects, I would place an order at whatever store the client preferred, and then I would have them call in with a card to purchase the order. They were happy to not be paying a markup.

I built a stone retaining wall and an irrigated cedar planter box for the same lady. I only worked T&M, and never had any issues with her or getting payed.
T&M is still my favorite way to bill... Its fair, and surprise sub-surface existing problems remain the clients problem and not mine.

 

Yes T&M is an easy and safe way to charge but most people won't go for it. They want a bid. It's too much of an unknown, especially if its a big job. I do have clients pay for materials such as tile, flooring, plumbing trims, etc. on their own or w credit card over the phone and it works well. All my clients want a bid.

 

yeah, I need to work on my bid skills...
Afraid of getting bent over!

I hope you get payed, you sound like a respectable professional.

You could always blacklist them locally, make sure everyone knows what crazies they are!

 

Thank you very much! My crew is so protective of me and pissed at these people...if things don't go well they will let everyone know. All the trades can really spread the word.

 

What's with you guys not putting a markup on materials you arrange for with these customers?

Do you not have any respect for your time invested, skills and experience?

That should be part of the knowledge your customers are paying for.

 

It depends on the situation. Sometimes customers have been shopping way before they call me. They may have already picked out their tile, wood floors, etc. In this case the customers had picked out the tile at a wholesale/retail tile store and said they were going to buy it. They wanted me to install. I bid on the install only. Then after they spoke to said tile store, they were informed by the tile store that they could give a trade discount if a trades person purchased it. I told them I would do that. I didn't purchase through the store though, I just called Prosource and bought thru them. Prosource puts an automatic markup for the customer and gives me 10%. Anyway, it was a good faith favor I threw in on the job and now I have not been reimbursed fo this favor.

Much of the time I bring samples to my customers house and we work together making choices. I can then include materials w a markup as well as time spent.

 

That being said, if my customer pays over the phone for materials, I am getting at least 10% on those materials and they feel they are getting a deal as well, so everyone wins.

 

Yes . It really is. The guy is well versed in contract law and makes a game of it. On the very first time I met him I was working for a friend of my dads helping him build a redwood deck. You know how expensive that was. He was bragging to my boss about how he got away without paying the guy that did the carport.

Yes spreading the word is the best thing to do with people like that. Some still wont listen though.

 

This thread reminded me of a story I heard a long time ago about a mason who built a chimney, people warned him that the customer had a reputation for not paying. He said "well he'll pay me. " When he built the chimney, part way up he put in a clear pane of glass. He finished the job and sure enough the guy wouldn't pay up, so he left... later when the weather got cold and the guy tried to build a fire...smoked him out!
So he calls up the mason and says "hey, my chimney doesn't work, not at all! " The mason says "when I get my money it will work, I promise. "
Guy pays, mason climbs up and drops a brick down the chimney to break the glass, and everything is settled.
Anyway this was years ago, before the days of suing like it is today, probably wouldn't work nowadays.

 

This thread reminded me of a story I heard a long time ago about a mason who built a chimney, people warned him that the customer had a reputation for not paying. He said "well he'll pay me. " When he built the chimney, part way up he put in a clear pane of glass. He finished the job and sure enough the guy wouldn't pay up, so he left... later when the weather got cold and the guy tried to build a fire...smoked him out!
So he calls up the mason and says "hey, my chimney doesn't work, not at all! " The mason says "when I get my money it will work, I promise. "
Guy pays, mason climbs up and drops a brick down the chimney to break the glass, and everything is settled.
Anyway this was years ago, before the days of suing like it is today, probably wouldn't work nowadays.

Sure it would. Glass still blocks smoke these days! :laughing:

 

I do so appreciate those customers who rat themselves out during estimates.

They tell me how awful every other contractor was who was there before me, or who they didn't pay, etc....

Allows me to politely excuse myself before I become their next "victim"!

 

Yeah, most of the ones you want to fire before they hire you are all too willing to tell on themselves if you'll just listen to them. If all they can say is how expensive everyone else is, pack up right there and move on. You don't even need to give them an estimate. If all they have to say about any contractor is how bad they were, they won't have anything nice to say about you either. If they had to go to court with someone else, they might be inclined to do the same with you. Most people love to tell you their business and don't know when to shut up. Thankfully.

 

That's awesome! :clap::clap::clap:

 

That story has been making the rounds on construction sites for at least 25 years. There are also similar stories about plumbers and electricians that did things to insure that they were paid also.

 

It was fairly common practise among bricklayers here for decades, up until the mid '80's anyway. Masonry fireplaces are much less common now so I'm sure it's rarely done these days

 

Just wonder how a plumber or electrician pull that off?

Kinda; hard to fake water and electric... :whistling

 

I think they had a line capped or a few circuits not hooked up or something. Every trade has similar urban legends of "How to get paid"

 

Well, it's been two days since my deadbeat client met with Tulsa's Most upscale remodeling company and I haven't heard a word.



Any ideas? I've called him the last two times. No email. No text. Not a word. He met w the guy at 130 yesterday.