[Grumpy]

Roofers complain exceptionally often about illegals lowering standards etc...

Seriously I don't want this to be a thread about illegals being scurges or how we should kill all illegals. What I want to know is how almost any thread int he roofing industry can be turned into an "illegals suck" thread but you almost never hear it in any other trade.

Am I just oblivious to the other trades or do immigrants like to roof?

 

[shopdust]

It shows up at "Wood Web" in the trim - finish - installation forum real regular. Usually same issues, marginal workmanship, pooping on the job, driving wages down etc.
Most other sites, the voice of political correctness shout down and insult anyone who would ever think of mentioning it.

 

[mdshunk]

There are plenty of illegals working in my area, but not so many in construction trades. There is a language barrier that many small contractors (which is most of them) are unable to overcome. I think I can say with some surity that if a contractor could learn spanish, romanian, or whatever they'd have more crews of illegals working. I'm not so sure that the fact that they are illegals is what drives down the quality. Some of the finest craftsmen throughout history have been from outside of this country (illegal or otherwise). It may come down to an inability to properly communicate and thereby supervise said illegals.

 

[JustaFramer]

I have a lot to say about this but will refrain. But will say illegal labor hurts us all. Hire them and you deserve any fines that banko your buisness.

 

[747]

as a legal american i will be more than happy to exercise my right to free speech on this thread. I say round them all up and send them back to MEXICO. Why would a employer want to pay a decent wage when he can pay a illegal immigrant wage. I'M ALL FOR THOSE PRIVATE CITIZENS PROTECTING OUR BOARDERS. :Thumbs: :Thumbs: :Thumbs:

 

[PipeGuy]

Am I just oblivious to the other trades or do immigrants like to roof?

It's not just roofing. I see plenty of concrete workers, landscapers, masons, framers, pipelayers, etc.

Part of what makes the 'illegal' issue complicated is this - when a man comes in to apply for a job and has, by all appearances, a valid S/S card and driver's license, how do you know otherwise if he's 'illegal'. And if the govt. won't take care of the problem, am I supposed to be a defacto INS agent?

There are many factors contributing to the 'illegal' labor problem. Perhaps the chief of which is that the trades don't pay enough to attract many people who will habitually do quality work.

 

[housedocs]

I totally agree with 747, I think they have got to find a way to shut down the flow of illegals, it's not just the roofing trade Grumpy, down my way I never seen it on the roofing, but heavy in the drywall & paint trades. There's a huge pipeline and storage facility just outside the little town where I live. Last yr the entire place got painted inside & out of the tanks, all the exposed piping & bldgs. Contractor was from Tx and I think out of the whole crew there were maybe 4-5 who spoke English at all, these guys were all driving brand new com[any trucks and I think making pretty good wages and did a good job from waht I can tell from the road. But it still seriously irked me that they were most likely here illegally and even if they were legal immigrants, I still think the being able to read, speak, & write English should be a requirement.

 

[ProWallGuy]

There are many factors contributing to the 'illegal' labor problem. Perhaps the chief of which is that the trades don't pay enough to attract many people who will habitually do quality work.

Touché

 

[Mike Finley]

Illegals like to roof and they certainly like to landscape.

 

[747]

How about every week when you get your paycheck and see all the deductions do you think its ok for the illegals to be in our country making money and not getting anything deducted out of there check. But there costing hospitals multimillions in health care and schools also. Its not rite and then they insult us by not learning english and expect us to learn spanish. COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PipeGuy]

How about every week when you get your paycheck and see all the deductions do you think its ok for the illegals to be in our country making money and not getting anything deducted out of there check. But there costing hospitals multimillions in health care and schools also.

I have never seen a contracting firm write payroll checks without withholdings. I have never seen a contracting company hire someone who couldn't produce a S/S card and valid photo ID.
I think the far more prevalent scenario is 'illegals' who are subject to payroll withholdings, by virtue of a fake S/S number, who will never, ever, collect a penny of S/S benefits. I dare say we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weekly withholdings.

Its not rite and then they insult us by not learning english and expect us to learn spanish.

If I were king the only money spent on 'illegals' would be that needed to send their sorry asses back where they came from. No health care, no education, no housing. Legal immigration has issues of it's own that also need attention. Why are we welcoming unskilled, uneducated, unemployed immigrants?! Why the hell do we need foreign welfare candidates when we already have way too many native born 'ner-do-wells? I say if you want to immigrate here you need to show prior intent and ability to contribute something. And if you haven't become an English speaking U.S. citizen in x amount of years then go back to where you came from.

If most people think this way, then why aren't we requiring our elected officials to "get 'er done"?

 

[747]

pipeguy

:Thumbs: :Thumbs: :Thumbs: RITE ON!!!!!!

 

[Mike Finley]

How about every week when you get your paycheck and see all the deductions do you think its ok for the illegals to be in our country making money and not getting anything deducted out of there check.

That part doesn't really bother me.

The part that REALLY bothers me is the uneven playing business field it creates with a legitimate person doing eveything by the book is at a disadvantage against somebody else bending all the rules, paying illegals sub standard wages and being able to quote jobs for less.

That totally blows in my book. It's a nice gimick for those who cross the line to take advantage of it. Nice advantages - nobody can touch your estimates because your overhead is lower than anybody elses, no red tape to deal with, and you can treat your help like crap since they have more to lose then you do and either have to take it or slink back across the border.

That whole scenario feeds upon the industry and destroys local markets making it harder and harder for legitimate contractors to get liveable wages for their employees, until you have to work for no profits or join the skanks with the illegals.

 

[shopdust]

For the record, I and possibley about 90% of the people who follow this forum would have the gumption to get out the the Third World and better themselves.
With that being said, I watched as California devert more of it's budget from "goodies" like low cost universities and colleges, to welfare and prisons and free medical care.
Neither Political party will face the problem and both have elements that benefit from this.

 

[Trey]

I have quite a few hispanics I work with as far and as I know they are legal. Most speak great english especially compared to some ********. I'm also very capable in spanish as well. I really don't look at race, language, or anything. If they are good, clean, responsible, professional painters, and they have a tax payer id number, I'll work them. I pay more than alot of my competitors, only because I hate employee turnover. I have not had anyone quite in over a year or fired anyone for about the smae time. I'm pretty proud of that. I do see your point though the influx has cost me all my pricing power in new construction and there are alot of antiimmigrant people around. I'm pretty color blind and will hire the best people for the job, but some of my clients or potential clients aren't.

 

[TimWieneke]

It's an issue in every trade. Even "trim carpentry" now.

We're doing our best to do our part. We're hiring underpaid legal minority workers away from their employers with better pay and benefits, thus attracting their friends to becoming legal, thus forcing their exploitative employers to up wages consisitent with skill level and level the playing field when it comes to bidding.

You do your part - stay high quality. The market will follow.

Tim

 

[bergenbldr]

the real issue here is that lots contractors are willing to employ these workers for purpose of linieng their own pocket with w.c.premiums and employment taxes the rest of us thought we had to pay. i know of at least one homeowner being sued by employee of uninsured roofing contractor.

 

[Grumpy]

I know of at least one homeowner being sued by employee of uninsured roofing contractor.

Exactly why a big part of my sales presentation is to show the customer my certificate of insurance tell them why I have it and what it does and what will happen if they hire someone without it.

 

[Huck Finn]

That part doesn't really bother me.

The part that REALLY bothers me is the uneven playing business field it creates with a legitimate person doing eveything by the book is at a disadvantage against somebody else bending all the rules...it's a nice gimick for those who cross the line to take advantage of it. Nice advantages - nobody can touch your estimates because your overhead is lower than anybody elses, no red tape to deal with,

The issue of illegals aside, I run into this with "cash under the table" contractors who have a workers comp policy on one guy, the rest are cash, and if someone gets hurt they're on their own, or they call the ins. with the line "I just hired this guy this morning, haven't had time to fill out the paperwork, and wouldn't you know he hurt himself the first day!" Then there are the "2nd job" contractors, in my area its usually firemen, who have another income and bid low because its just side job money for them. I"m talking licensed contractors taking on some sizeable jobs. The work climate is changing here, and it seems to be getting better, but its been frustrating the past several years dealing with it.

 

[A+Carpenter]

All I have to say to you is this. Quit hireing them chilis and put them out of work . We all use them and we know it's the truth . It's hard to find someone willing to work these days thats not hooked on dope or has issues getting out of bed. As far as them driving down the prices . I made 5.50 a sqft for framing and on up on single and higher than that on customs . We need to drive this filth thats driving down our prices and they live in the houses that they frame here in texas as they are building them for 1.75 and 2.00 a SQFT . All my work is remodel know due to this . I dont build new homes unless its direct with the homeowner . If i cant find help I will frame the house myself and get some highschool kid to help me .

Quote of the day . Swim back to mexico you chili peppers. Gods sons name was Jesus
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