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Bottom line, anybody would do this to feed their family. However, it should not result in a ride for them now. He took a gamble and lost, unfortunately for him. Not our problem, and we shouldn't be liable for the increased insurances that would follow this case if he were to win that money, as well as continue to support his children and everything else.

Here is a perfect example. I had my son, who I have custody of. I was years into the insulation business, but had no capital to start a legitimate operation of my own. So, I continued to work my job and stack some money, and got offered a new job, better pay, better benefits, all that. I took it. I called Family Care to get medical coverage on my son for the 60 days of probation that I would be on before the coverage took effect(they had to make sure I knew what I said, especially at my age). I was told no. That is ridiculous in my opinion. I busted my ass, paid my taxes, had a better chance to do more, asked for a small assistance to cover the gap and was shut down. If I had no social security number, it wouldn't MATTER the circumstances. My son would have been fully covered.

So, I struggled more, covered him myself, took my new job, and started to take on work as an "unlicensed" contractor that we all hate here. I grew my base on good work and fair pricing(not the cheapest by any means). I grew to be a legit, completely legal company, still paying my own way on everything, paying top dollar to good, QUALITY, LEGAL employess, and doing good business.

Bottom line is, he is not entitled in any way to any benefits here. If I had falsified documents to get medical on my son and been caught, or been caught doing unlicensed and uninsured work(which I ALWAYS informed customers i lacked the liability insurances and they would be ineligible for rebates, coverages, and what not), I would still be behind bars, my son would be who knows where, and there would be ZERO sympathy for me from the public.

Another example. A man breaks into your home. You hurt him badly in a scuffle. Are you accepting that now, you should supplement his income when he was there illegally?

If you are driving a car with fake insurance cards, and get taken out by a drunk driver, guess what, you are entitled to NOTHING! You drove illegally, in NJ anyways!

That thief shouldn't have been in the house, he gets nothing. The driver shouldn't have been in the car and gets nothing. He shouldn't have been there, and he should get NOTHING!

Had he not falsified documents to get the position, of course I think the company should be ENTIRELY liable to cover EVERYTHING, and hopefully it would bankrupt them so some guys would learn their lesson. However, he didn't, and neither the company he worked for, the insurance, the taxpayers, or even the government should need to help in any way.

You can come here and work as an illegal, and if somebody takes a risk on you, bust your ass and make it happen then! But the fraudulent aspect of this case takes any credibility of this simply being a hardworking man doing right by his family.

If you give this guy his pay now, for life, then let me know now, can you name ANY true benefits left to being in this industry as an American citizen anymore?
 
As an illegal, I don't think he has any "legal rights" in this country. How long did he work before getting injured? Chances are that was a scam as well. Not only are his children learning from this, but every illegal who wants to pay their family's way.

If you can sneak over here, get injured on the job, and your family is set for life...... And the courts back this up, what is going to stop these scams?

I say deport him and let him fight for his "rights" from his home country.

This area is flooded with illegals. The people that hire them tend to know it too. Chances are the employer turned a blind eye to that as well until the guy wasn't pulling his own weight. So they should pay for their scandalous behavior as well.

I don't think anyone is innocent in this situation.
 
Just had a brief PM exchange with a respected contributor who thinks this thread is just fine. OK, that's CT, I can live with that.

Back to the original post, then.

Where as it may rub everyone wrong (including me) on a personal and political basis that the guy got worker's comp, you set up all sorts of bad incentives if you don't let him collect. If worker's comp doesn't apply to illegals, and if illegals don't have access to attorneys, the employer now has an additional incentive to hire illegal workers, and the insurance company has a reduced incentive to audit the employer for legality and for safe working conditions. It sets up an open season on illegals, and there's no reason that we should do that in civil matters any more than we do in criminal matters - it's not legal to kill or rape someone just because they're here illegally, and it shouldn't be OK to send a guy up on scaffolding without guard rails if he's here illegally. These are all flavors of the general idea that it's only in limited areas (self-defence, for example) that no matter other people's behavior or status, our own responsibilities under the law remain the same.

If we want to reduce the use of illegal labor in the construction industry, the penalties have to be levied against employers, not employees. As a practical matter, we don't have the ability to put 15 million people in federal prison to do hard time. And despite the stories, which I have no trouble believing, about employers not knowing that their employees are illegal, in the vast majority of cases the employer knows. That big company with the armed guard and the bag of $20K of cash on payday? They know. The little guy who picked up the workers outside of HD? He knows. The exceptions are rare.

I don't hire illegal workers (I think). I fill out all the forms. I think there are plenty of skilled guys waiting to be hired (though it's tough to find them sometimes). As a business judgment I think that taking away the employee's right to a safe workplace gives the hack and the illegal employer an edge over me, because it gives them an additional incentive to save some insurance premiums by hiring that guy.

Finally, as far as the 3 kids goes. Well, they were born here, and that's the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, and if you want to poke at that one, don't get too holy if someone else starts trying to poke at the 2nd.

Hey, off-topic is fun!
That would be me.
 
So than only dealers should be busted and the people using the *****, heroin, cocaine, should be left alone because they are the employees of the drug dealers?
Um, yes I think so, it would make room in our prisons for the real crooks......... Bankers and politicians, but that is beside the point. They are actually merchants, btw lol.
 
As for the notion that illegal immigrants don't have legal rights - the equal protection clause of the Constitution says that all persons - and it says "citizens" when it means citizens and "persons" when it means everyone - have equal protection under the law.

If you only believe in the parts of the Constitution that you agree with, then you don't really believe in the Constitution. It may not be convenient, but it's that simple.

My neighbors in San Francisco assume I'm a lunatic conservative, because I live in San Francisco yet I won't share my political views with them. My fellow citizens in Connecticut and Michigan assume I'm a lunatic liberal, because I live in San Francisco and I won't share my political views with them. I must be doing the right thing.
 
he had the legal right to purchase a false or stolen identity to gain employment? and that would equal jail time for most of us. or does that only apply to "citizens"
No, that's a crime. And once he's been convicted of that crime, he loses some but not all of his rights. The Constitution says he's entitled to due process. As for the jail time for most of us? No way.
 
According to NDAA due process is a granted right, not a god given right.
 
You haven't been listening to the gov lately. They have over written the constitution on several occasion now. Whether you like it or not they have done it under executive order and emergency war classifications.
 
Granted by the Constitution.
The constitution states what our are god given inalienable rights. The constitution does not give us these rights, it only state that they exist as god given.
 
The constitution states what our are god given inalienable rights. The constitution does not give us these rights, it only state that they exist as god given.
It's not that long, and you can read it here:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

The Bill of Rights is on a connected page.

When you've found where it talks about God given, let us all know. For that matter, let the Supreme Court know, too, because they missed that part too.
 
Well, I'm going to escape with what little dignity I still have and go argue with my son about something fact-based, like whether Batman is stronger than Superman.

I apologize to everyone for getting suckered into this and wasting the airtime: I'm usually pretty good at not getting trolled.
 
He broke the law. He should not have been there, PERIOD! At that point, any repercussions of being there is his own doing. I know somebody who is currently in jail because he broke into an abandoned hospital here to cut copper piping out. He was electricuted. Does he have a legal leg to stand on seeing as there should have been no currents there?!

Most of us will not know word for word what the constitution reads, but should we just assume "Citizens" will see some of the benefits and all of the negatives of it while the "People"(illegals) will take in all the perks?

He was working. Illegally. He is clearly GUILTY of that, no question about it. So, what rights does he still retain? Fair trial is irrelevant, he was here, committed either fraud or identity theft, thats already a fact. Had he not done that, he wouldn't be in the position he is in now, and therefore, case closed!
 
Well, I'm going to escape with what little dignity I still have and go argue with my son about something fact-based, like whether Batman is stronger than Superman.

I apologize to everyone for getting suckered into this and wasting the airtime: I'm usually pretty good at not getting trolled.
Really, how is there any argument, Superman is wayyy stronger.
 
I've got a new solution... Fix his ass and send him (and family) back to mexico, fine the company $2 million and put it in the work comp accounts. This continues to discourage the hiring of illegals, doesn't reward the illegal, and still serves his basic human right (we can't just ship him back injured).
 
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