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Illegal immigrant entitled to workers' comp

25K views 191 replies 44 participants last post by  CITY DECKS INC  
#1 ·
Not sure how I feel about this. I mean, the company probably paid premium on his wages, so he is due his compensation. But then there's the whole illegal thing to get past.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20130104/NEWS/701049915/1685#court-illegal-immigrant-entitled-to-workers-comp



LINCOLN — David Gutierrez was left physically unable to work after his foot was run over by a forklift on the job at Omaha's Quality Pork International packing house in August 2008.

Trouble is, he was not able, legally, to hold a job at the meat plant. Gutierrez was the false name assumed by illegal immigrant Ricardo Moyera when he used purchased documents to land the job in March 2007.

In a case that went to the Nebraska Supreme Court, Moyera's employers argued that they should not have to pay an estimated $2 million over the rest of the worker's life to cover his lost wages and medical costs.

On Friday, the Nebraska Supreme Court ruled that Moyera, despite being an illegal immigrant from Mexico, is entitled to workers' compensation payments through his employer for his on-the-job injury.

It was the first time the high court has held that illegal immigrants are protected by state workers' compensation laws. The decision adopted and expanded a similar ruling made by the midlevel Nebraska Court of Appeals in 2009.

Written by Judge William Connolly, Friday's opinion followed the lead of other courts across the country. Those courts have reasoned that excluding workers in the U.S.

illegally from disability benefits creates a financial incentive to hire illegal immigrants and gives scofflaw employers an advantage over competitors who follow the law.

“This is an issue that's been rumbling and rumbling for years,” said Moyera's attorney, Michael P. Dowd of Omaha. “This is the first time it's been pushed to the point where we're going to decide this issue.”

Dowd said an increasing number of his clients are Spanish-speaking immigrants — from Mexico as well as from Cuba, El Salvador, Guatemala and elsewhere. He said those workers often are vulnerable to serious injury because they take dangerous jobs others won't accept. Many, such as Moyera, speak no English.

No tax dollars were directly at stake in the case. Workers' compensation benefits are financed by employers, who are mandated by law to carry workers' compensation insurance. The system is intended to limit employers' liability while providing injured workers an avenue for quick resolution of their claims.

In fact, Dowd argued that the ruling could save taxpayer expense by requiring the company to foot the bill for Moyera's injuries instead of leaving him to seek indigent health care.

“This decision really protects the taxpayers by maintaining the burden and the cost on the employer, who is the one deriving benefits from the worker's labor,” he said.

The lawyer representing the company was out of the office and unavailable to comment Friday. Officials with the company also declined to comment.

Dowd said Moyera is married and the father of three children born in the United States.

The forklift accident, which occurred when he was 29, broke several bones in Moyera's foot and led to reflex sympathetic dystrophy, a painful nerve disorder. He also suffers severe back and hip pain and must use a cane to walk. A mutually agreed upon rehabilitation expert concluded that Moyera had lost 100 percent of his earning capacity as a result of the injury.

Moyera's approximate benefits would include $333.88 per week for lost wages during his remaining life expectancy, plus $987 per month for his pain medication and about $2,000 per year for other medical expenses, said Dowd, who estimated the total cost to the company at more than $2 million.

After the injury, the pork packinghouse assigned Moyera to a light-duty janitorial position that enabled him to elevate his foot when it swelled. But in May 2010, after the company's personnel manager audited employment files, Moyera was fired for lack of proper immigration documents.

Attorneys for the packing plant challenged a Workers' Compensation Court finding in Moyera's favor. They pointed to a 2005 Nebraska Supreme Court ruling that illegal immigrants are not entitled to vocational rehabilitation services because they are not employable in the United States.

The attorneys contended that benefits for a permanent loss of earning power also should depend on an employee's ability to obtain lawful employment. Moyera had no earning capacity to lose, they argued, because his lack of English and his immigration status would prevent him from getting a new job in this country.

The high court, however, made a distinction between vocational rehabilitation and disability compensation. Connolly wrote that vocational rehabilitation services, intended to help a worker move into a new career, are triggered when a workplace injury prevents an employee from returning to the same job or a similar one. If a worker's immigration status makes him ineligible to return to work, the Workers' Compensation Court cannot order retraining for a different career.

In contrast, the court said, disability benefits reflect that the work-related injury prevents the employee from working in the United States or elsewhere.

The court also noted that the language of state workers' compensation law says it applies to “aliens” without a specific requirement that immigrants be in the United States legally.

“We agree that the ordinary meaning of 'aliens' is broad enough to include both legal and illegal aliens, with or without work authorization,” Connolly wrote, endorsing the Court of Appeals' reasoning. “Moreover, if it was the intent of the Nebraska Legislature to exclude illegal aliens from the definition of covered employees or workers, it could have easily included a modifier doing so in the statute, but the Legislature did not, and has not, done so.”

Contact the writer: 402-473-9581, leslie.reed@owh.com
Copyright ©2013 Omaha World-Herald. All rights reserved. This mat
 
#38 ·
Yup he didn't have a job when he came here, than he stole someone else's job w/forged docs. So if he has to go back, with no big payout its just the same. Now he has no job again. There shouldn't be a bonus for his fair treatment when his treatment of the system wasn't fair in the 1st place


Kinda like a drunk driver or someone on a suspended liscense is automaticly guilty as he had no business being there in the 1st place. He had no legal business in that position and should accept the consequences his actions caused. F'ed up foot.
 
#39 ·
I actually thought this part of the story would generate more interest, though I'm not sure if I agree with the premise.
Frankly, I would think it's too big a risk to not have WC if you have employees, legal or not.

"Friday's opinion followed the lead of other courts across the country. Those courts have reasoned that excluding workers in the U.S. illegally from disability benefits creates a financial incentive to hire illegal immigrants and gives scofflaw employers an advantage over competitors who follow the law."

I think it also appears that this company was self-insured, if that's possible. Otherwise, wouldn't the claim have been filed right away with the insurance company? And wouldn't it have been the insurance company's lawyers in court?
 
#41 ·
This guy is illegal. He has NO rights here.

Why does he deserve anything? He doesn't. Other than a predetermined sentence in a cold prison followed by a seat on a government funded plane ride for him and his cane.

If we (citizens) break the law we go to jail and our children are without their parent, this should be no different.

I think this is all bullchit. He gave forged documents, that's illegal. He doesn't deserve to be here working or living in the first place.

No our system to get here legally isn't perfect but so what? You file and wait like your supposed to. Try a work visa.

Again, he has NO rights. He should get NOTHING.

NOTHING except a swift kick back to wherever he came. His country's issues are not OUR problem.

Hearing gross injustices like this really pisses me off
 
#42 ·
What would happen if I had a fake driver's license, fake license plates on my vehicle and a fake set of insurance documents AND I got into a car accident?

During the investigation, I would be the one in trouble whether I was at fault or not.
 
#45 ·
People always tend to think in terms of these outrageous financial awards as some one elses money.

It's not, its yours and my money, being ripped out of our hands by higher insurance rates, greater cost of doing business etc.

Once people start to realize this, the attitude will change. Till than we will have bleeding heart liberals with the massive giveaway attitude so prevelant in this country.

Maybe when he gets his check he'll qualify as one of the evil few in this country who make over 400k, and have to have BARACK redistibute it for him. 39% + state and local taxes and his attorney will get 1/3

Than he'll have to get his other foot run over.
 
#49 ·
pinwheel said:
I was addressing Leo's question, not the entire debate. I challenge all of you to ask yourself that question, what would you do for you & yours if you were born into a different set of circumstances beyond your control. It's easy to pass judgement from this side of the border. It's easy to take for granted all we have, while looking down our noses at those who were born to different circumstances.

I have huge respect for those working hard & making sacrifice to better their own lives. Hell, this country was founded on these very principles.
It is easy to take for granted what we have. I believe we all do it daily. We can also have compassion for a man trying to feed his family. But he doesn't need to do it here, when he has his own country to work hard in. America is the land of opportunity, but it's not supposed to be the land of "feel sorry for everybody that sneaks in here". I agree that whatever surgeries he needed should have been paid by the company. That's their punishment for not digging deeper into their new hires. But now he needs to be deported. He is not our problem anymore. God knows we have enough legal citizens sucking on the govt tit, we don't need anymore illegals doing it too!
 
#52 ·
I can tell you I know how hard it is to get a work visa here. My brother in law moved here from Scotland to marry my sister. They didn't follow the correct procedures when they did that and it was a huge pain in the ass for them. As well as it cost them a bunch of money. But he did it the right way and waited to get a work visa before getting a job. It took over a year. Then he took the first job he could, which was a real crappy low paying job. He worked hard and found a better job. Now he has had many raises and been offered a promotion. All done legally. It can be done. It's not easy, but it can without false documents.
 
#61 ·
You do have a valid point Leo. But, these companies are aware that a serious percentage of their empoyees are illegal, and turn a blind eye.

Personally, I am not blaming them for turning a blind eye, as usually, it's a good fit for the outfit (it's not a question of wages, it's a question of productivity). However, crying illegal after the fact is disturbing
 
#64 ·
If he has the papers why should they investigate any farther than finding out if they are correct and in order. After that you are just being suspicious and discriminatory. These are gov papers, they should be in order, especially if you check them out and they do check out, which is pretty much mandatory.

It's called a scam and just like obummers "birth certificate" is accepted by the majority as good enough, we all know it is a forged document. Yet the illegal still has the job.
 
#67 ·
And yet this is the employers problem. If they are illegal then it's the employers fault even though he followed all the rules, and even checked up on the slow bureaucracy of the gov.

So in other words they are setting you up for the fall. You try as much as you can and they refuse to give out the information they say you are required to have. And then when they find you are in violation they nail you to the floor knowing full well the system is broken.

Sounds like another regulatory system that is designed to make money on both ends no matter how hard you try to comply.
 
#68 · (Edited)
Quote:
5 or so years ago I was running a job south of here. It was our first real dealings with Hispanic crews. Mainly because I couldn't get any white guys to show up. I had 14 guys on the crew, most Hispanic.

The owners wife made sure we had all the paperwork. We looked at it, made copies like we were supposed to. She called the ins and asked them when we would know if the papers were real or matched the worker.

Ins told us that we would only know if they were improper and that would take many months. We asked what to do in the mean time. They told us to hire them and they would let us know eventually. When we called back a few months later, we were told that legally we could not be told if they were proper or not, or if some were and some weren't , but we should do our best to hire only those with proper documents. :blink:

Its all part of the progressive agenda to increase their voting base, They encourage any and all activities that will help them win elections at any cost.
They have the system rigged to encourage illigal Immigration and have no plan to fix this !
It will eventually bankrupt our nation.

We need real citizen canidates who are honest and have morals and who are not beholden to anyone but their constituants
God help us
p.s. The company did check this guy out ? we should lock him up.. then deport him for his 2 crimes illigal entry ,fraud !!
no money ,no reward for lying and breaking our laws
Give him a crutch and send his arse home
 
#69 · (Edited by Moderator)
its all part of the progressive agenda to increase their voting base they encourage any and all activities that will help them win elections at any cost
they have the system rigged to encourage illigal immagration and have no plan to fix this !
It will eventually bankrupt our nation

we need real citizen canidates who are honest and have morals and who are not beholden to anyone but their constituants
God help us
p.s. the company did check this guy out ? we should lock him up then deport him for his 2 crimes illigal enrty ,fraud !!
no money ,no reward for lying and breaking our laws
Give him a crutch and send his arse home

YES. This illegal issue will cause the downfall of this once great nation.
 
#71 ·
Exactly. I was pretty naive when I started that job. 2 years later my eyes were wide open, in good ways and bad.

I assumed that since we hadn't heard anything, my guys were all legal. I even asked one of the guys I trusted completely. He told me that they most likely were, and were good guys, which they all were.

Since we were converting apartments into condos, the tenants were understandably a bit upset. One tenant started calling our guys names and doing things that jackasses do. The owners who had our backs completely gave them a three day eviction. On the way out they threatened to call immigration on us. This coincided with the first Hispanic "walkout". Remember that? Tensions were pretty high.

Anyway, being naive and believing my guys were all legit, I figured that we wouldn't have any problems. I was wrong. It ended up that none of my guys showed up the next day, even my main guy who had worked for a large city government for years. One guy who had worked for us up north even left, and he had traveled with us.

I figured that they all were illegal given what happened. It turns out that most of them bailed, because it is such a hassle to prove that you are legal if you get taken in. They didn't want to spend days in jail waiting to be released and risk the chance of being deported any way, even with the proper paperwork. I take that at face value, since I have no idea one way or another.

More phone calls and no answers. There really aren't any ways to be completely legit, unless you don't hire Hispanics.

I wouldn't hire any these days. Too much risk, despite the fact that they will outwork most guys I know. This is completely a political will problem. Give employers a real system we can use.
 
#73 ·
Where's the pile
I'm without sin here as I have not gone to any country with illegal papers ever. I feel a real sense of urgency here so we can stop this type of jurisprudence.

Someone should look up the affiliation of the judges and get a new vote towing to Eli,innate these types of problems from reoccurring.

This is after all why we vote and the importance of bowing aware of won is on the ballot
 
#75 · (Edited)
The only reason that I can think of that we're reading about Obama's birth certificate on a CT thread is that the CT software has completely failed, and this forum is now importing comments directly from Yahoo. In fact, I think I read these comments, verbatim, on an important Yahoo news story about Kim Kardashian's hair.

And don't assume that because I live in one of the capitals of liberalism, that you know ANYTHING about my politics. You don't, because I don't use CT to talk about my politics or my religion or my prejudices.
 
#77 ·
California. Hmmmm. Imagine that.
 
#80 ·
Just had a brief PM exchange with a respected contributor who thinks this thread is just fine. OK, that's CT, I can live with that.

Back to the original post, then.

Where as it may rub everyone wrong (including me) on a personal and political basis that the guy got worker's comp, you set up all sorts of bad incentives if you don't let him collect. If worker's comp doesn't apply to illegals, and if illegals don't have access to attorneys, the employer now has an additional incentive to hire illegal workers, and the insurance company has a reduced incentive to audit the employer for legality and for safe working conditions. It sets up an open season on illegals, and there's no reason that we should do that in civil matters any more than we do in criminal matters - it's not legal to kill or rape someone just because they're here illegally, and it shouldn't be OK to send a guy up on scaffolding without guard rails if he's here illegally. These are all flavors of the general idea that it's only in limited areas (self-defence, for example) that no matter other people's behavior or status, our own responsibilities under the law remain the same.

If we want to reduce the use of illegal labor in the construction industry, the penalties have to be levied against employers, not employees. As a practical matter, we don't have the ability to put 15 million people in federal prison to do hard time. And despite the stories, which I have no trouble believing, about employers not knowing that their employees are illegal, in the vast majority of cases the employer knows. That big company with the armed guard and the bag of $20K of cash on payday? They know. The little guy who picked up the workers outside of HD? He knows. The exceptions are rare.

I don't hire illegal workers (I think). I fill out all the forms. I think there are plenty of skilled guys waiting to be hired (though it's tough to find them sometimes). As a business judgment I think that taking away the employee's right to a safe workplace gives the hack and the illegal employer an edge over me, because it gives them an additional incentive to save some insurance premiums by hiring that guy.

Finally, as far as the 3 kids goes. Well, they were born here, and that's the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, and if you want to poke at that one, don't get too holy if someone else starts trying to poke at the 2nd.

Hey, off-topic is fun!
 
#81 ·
Bottom line, anybody would do this to feed their family. However, it should not result in a ride for them now. He took a gamble and lost, unfortunately for him. Not our problem, and we shouldn't be liable for the increased insurances that would follow this case if he were to win that money, as well as continue to support his children and everything else.

Here is a perfect example. I had my son, who I have custody of. I was years into the insulation business, but had no capital to start a legitimate operation of my own. So, I continued to work my job and stack some money, and got offered a new job, better pay, better benefits, all that. I took it. I called Family Care to get medical coverage on my son for the 60 days of probation that I would be on before the coverage took effect(they had to make sure I knew what I said, especially at my age). I was told no. That is ridiculous in my opinion. I busted my ass, paid my taxes, had a better chance to do more, asked for a small assistance to cover the gap and was shut down. If I had no social security number, it wouldn't MATTER the circumstances. My son would have been fully covered.

So, I struggled more, covered him myself, took my new job, and started to take on work as an "unlicensed" contractor that we all hate here. I grew my base on good work and fair pricing(not the cheapest by any means). I grew to be a legit, completely legal company, still paying my own way on everything, paying top dollar to good, QUALITY, LEGAL employess, and doing good business.

Bottom line is, he is not entitled in any way to any benefits here. If I had falsified documents to get medical on my son and been caught, or been caught doing unlicensed and uninsured work(which I ALWAYS informed customers i lacked the liability insurances and they would be ineligible for rebates, coverages, and what not), I would still be behind bars, my son would be who knows where, and there would be ZERO sympathy for me from the public.

Another example. A man breaks into your home. You hurt him badly in a scuffle. Are you accepting that now, you should supplement his income when he was there illegally?

If you are driving a car with fake insurance cards, and get taken out by a drunk driver, guess what, you are entitled to NOTHING! You drove illegally, in NJ anyways!

That thief shouldn't have been in the house, he gets nothing. The driver shouldn't have been in the car and gets nothing. He shouldn't have been there, and he should get NOTHING!

Had he not falsified documents to get the position, of course I think the company should be ENTIRELY liable to cover EVERYTHING, and hopefully it would bankrupt them so some guys would learn their lesson. However, he didn't, and neither the company he worked for, the insurance, the taxpayers, or even the government should need to help in any way.

You can come here and work as an illegal, and if somebody takes a risk on you, bust your ass and make it happen then! But the fraudulent aspect of this case takes any credibility of this simply being a hardworking man doing right by his family.

If you give this guy his pay now, for life, then let me know now, can you name ANY true benefits left to being in this industry as an American citizen anymore?