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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 50 year old Florida home w/barrel tile roof. Ther eare numerous leaks
and some rotted wood. A friend wants me to try a waterproofing material
like elasomeric. I don't thinkk it will work, especially since I was ripped
off by a supposed contractor last year. I hate to spend the money on a
new roof, but it is may be the best thing. Is there any benefit to the
waterproofing products?

thanks for any advice, kathy
 

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I am a roofer but not a tile expert. I know I have seen some products that can be applied over the tile to basically recover the roof. SPF may be one of them. Because we don;t do much tile I never paid much attention to the coatings. I'll look around my office and see if I can dig something up.
 
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Grumpy said:
I am a roofer but not a tile expert. I know I have seen some products that can be applied over the tile to basically recover the roof. SPF may be one of them. Because we don;t do much tile I never paid much attention to the coatings. I'll look around my office and see if I can dig something up.
Thank you so much.... I read the advise on reliableamerican.com on
choosing contractors. It eas very helpful, especially since I received a quate on a new tile foor, one for $7700 and one for $6400. The first one wanted
3.00 a linear foot for any wood over 100 feet. The second asked for $2.00
 

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Just remember price isn't always the deciding factor! Someone once told me when choosing a contractor you have 3 things to choose from but in the end you can only choose two. Which one will it be? Quality, Service, or Price.

I haven't found that literature yet... Still looking.
 

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I have rennovated quite a few of these homes although most were quite a bit older. You have to make a number of decisions. If you are looking for the cheapest way out, re-roof but pay attention to the architecture as this has a direct correlation to the value (a metal roof looks funny on a mediterranean home).
The early 50's were a crossover time as some of the 'old pros' were still building. Old style is tongue and groove sheathing covered with one or two layers of hot mopped felt and old tiles.
Old tiles were rolled by hand and formed and trimmed on a mans thigh. Thus thickness and size vary somewhat. The edges are not straight or square and you frequently see fingerprints in them. These are valuable and if you don't want them I know a guy in Miami that will pay well for them, so don't let the roofers throw them into a dumpster from the rooftop.
New tiles are machine rolled so that the clay is an even thickness and formed over a mold. Trimming was still done by hand as was the hole for the nail so the edges are pretty straight (the mold was used as a guide) and square. I haven't checked on the value of these in years but they used to be dumpster fodder. You may want to save some for planter edging or other projects.
If your house is classic, you may want to R&R the original tiles, expect a 10-20% attrition rate and replacement will be expensive. Try to find someone at least as old as the house to do the job and check all references. He may charge more but it's better than somebody whos seen it done once.
Coating are a waste of money on these roofs as gaps are commonly 3/8 -1/2 in., sometimes as much as 3/4 in. The top layer of tiles are like small roofs that drain into troughs formed by the lower layer, tight fits do not factor into the equation and, in fact allow the upper surface to breathe. 50 yrs. is not bad for a roof and I'll bet that the leaks are from cracked tiles from someone who does not know how to walk on this type of roof. Someone who does cracks one occasionally.
Keep us informed.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Grumpy said:
I talked to a few colleagues and they basically concured, the "coatings" for tile roofs are essentially a waste of money. What is the name of the coatings they are proposing to apply?
I think it is called Elastomeric, I have looked it up on the Internet, but it seems to be more for flat roofs. My exhusband wants to apply this himself. (no he knows nothing about roofing or contracting).
 
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Discussion Starter #8
I really appreciate the respones. If I know there is a lot of wood that needs
replaced, shpuld I ask the roofing company I choose, if I can buy the extra wood myself? It would be a lot less expensive than $2 to $3 a linear foot.
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Teetorbilt said:
I have rennovated quite a few of these homes although most were quite a bit older. You have to make a number of decisions. If you are looking for the cheapest way out, re-roof but pay attention to the architecture as this has a direct correlation to the value (a metal roof looks funny on a mediterranean home).
The early 50's were a crossover time as some of the 'old pros' were still building. Old style is tongue and groove sheathing covered with one or two layers of hot mopped felt and old tiles.
Old tiles were rolled by hand and formed and trimmed on a mans thigh. Thus thickness and size vary somewhat. The edges are not straight or square and you frequently see fingerprints in them. These are valuable and if you don't want them I know a guy in Miami that will pay well for them, so don't let the roofers throw them into a dumpster from the rooftop.
New tiles are machine rolled so that the clay is an even thickness and formed over a mold. Trimming was still done by hand as was the hole for the nail so the edges are pretty straight (the mold was used as a guide) and square. I haven't checked on the value of these in years but they used to be dumpster fodder. You may want to save some for planter edging or other projects.
If your house is classic, you may want to R&R the original tiles, expect a 10-20% attrition rate and replacement will be expensive. Try to find someone at least as old as the house to do the job and check all references. He may charge more but it's better than somebody whos seen it done once.
Coating are a waste of money on these roofs as gaps are commonly 3/8 -1/2 in., sometimes as much as 3/4 in. The top layer of tiles are like small roofs that drain into troughs formed by the lower layer, tight fits do not factor into the equation and, in fact allow the upper surface to breathe. 50 yrs. is not bad for a roof and I'll bet that the leaks are from cracked tiles from someone who does not know how to walk on this type of roof. Someone who does cracks one occasionally.
Keep us informed.
I want to go with the 'S' tile. Do I need a plumber to remove the solar water heater that is on the roof?
 

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You have a solar heater on a barrel tile roof!!!??? Well it's not too difficult to figure out where your leaks came from!
As far as removing the collector yourself, have at it. Shut it down and drain it as you would for a freeze. There are usually unions at the collector that you can disconnect, then just unscrew the leg fasteners. Warning!! some of these are quite heavy especially some of the older ones (about 4-5 ins. thick with copper tubing and glass covers). get plenty of buddies. Throw two 1/2 in lines over the top of the house, take up as much slack as you can and secure the bitter ends to trees or trucks. Once it is free, ease it down and it's probably going to cost you some rain gutter. Even if it's the lighter stuff, it's always good to have a few extra people around when working on a roof.
I assume that you want to reinstall it. Discuss this with the roofing contractor so that he knows where to place the supports for the collector.

Tips for walking on a barrel tile roof (not foolproof).
Always walk on a dry roof, a few days after the last rain.
Never wear boots! Socks are best, boat shoes are second.
Always walk on the crowns, walk on the balls of your feet, transfer weight slowly and if the tile shifts try another.
Before you step, look at the tile. This is an upside down U on top of another one. If there is a gap at the top find another one. You want to step on the ones where the tops meet.
Never step near the edge of the tile, place the ball of your foot about 6 ins. from the lower edge.
Carry a large chalk to mark the safe spots.
Sound like walking through a minefield? In many ways it is similar including the outcome (something goes crack instead of boom).
I'm 200# and have learned how over the last 35 yrs., I rarely crack a tile.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
The advise has been great. Does anone Know of a good roofing contractoer in the Fort Lauderdale area?
 

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Elastomeric is a type of coating... It's not a brand or anything like that. Elastomeric is more of an adjective. Most roof coatings can be applied by home owners if you follow the manufacturer's instructions.

We charge about $5 a foot for fascia replacement, but this confuses me! How/why would you be replacing wood? You can't even see wood unless you remove the roof. If the roof is so bad you can see wood, you need more than a coating.


The more I read, the more I really think you should really hire a professional to work on this problem. Try [email protected] he's a bud of mine in the clearwater area and would maybe be able to help you. His name is Tom.
 

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For a roofing contractor in Ft. Laud call Engle Construction 954-583-1988 ask for Gary Engle (he's my brother-in-law) tell him Steve Teetor sent you.
He's a second generation State Contractor and Engle Const. has been around almost 50 yrs. I doubt if he's interested in the job but he can steer you in the right direction.
 
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Grumpy said:
Elastomeric is a type of coating... It's not a brand or anything like that. Elastomeric is more of an adjective. Most roof coatings can be applied by home owners if you follow the manufacturer's instructions.

We charge about $5 a foot for fascia replacement, but this confuses me! How/why would you be replacing wood? You can't even see wood unless you remove the roof. If the roof is so bad you can see wood, you need more than a coating.


The more I read, the more I really think you should really hire a professional to work on this problem. Try [email protected] he's a bud of mine in the clearwater area and would maybe be able to help you. His name is Tom.

Thanks....ps the wood is for the any rotted wood on the plywood deck.
 
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Grumpy said:
Are you saying he will replace ANY rotten wood at no additional charge? If so that's very interesting. He's taking a gamble.

No..One quote was $2.00 a linear foot, one quote was $3.00 a linear foot over 100 ft.

Why...is this possibly a large dollar amount above the new roof quote?
 

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In our area it usually doesn't exceed $100 but there have been jobs that required total replacement. You really never know until the shingles are torn off. Before that it's just guessing. Walking on a roof isn't enough to determine wood replacement.

What I tell home owners is this "If the wood repalcement exceeds $150 we will call you to let you know."
 
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Grumpy said:
In our area it usually doesn't exceed $100 but there have been jobs that required total replacement. You really never know until the shingles are torn off. Before that it's just guessing. Walking on a roof isn't enough to determine wood replacement.

What I tell home owners is this "If the wood repalcement exceeds $150 we will call you to let you know."

What exactly is a linear foot? How wide? I read one of your responses that referrenced a sheet of plywood costing $360.00 How big is this?
Is that a roofing square?

I am afraid they will tear off the roof and I won't be able to afford the wood repalcement and the roof. I have $1000 cushion.

Kathy
 

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A ruler is one linear ft. A yard stick is 3 linear feet. Think linear=line. When we figure square footage we are multiplying linear footage together. If we take a box that is 3' x 3' we know it's 9 square feet. What we are really doing is saying this box is 3 linear feet wide and 3 linear feet tall.

A sheet of plywood is 4'x8'. There are roughly 3 sheets to a square. That price is an installed price, the sheet it's self is anywhere from $10-$25. I've heard varying prices across the country.

I really wouldn't worry too much about the wood replacement unless the house is very very old, has an original layer of cedar, has had leaking, has ventilation problems, has animal damage, or a tree fell on the house. If you are so worried ask to speak to his past customers and ask them: "Was the wood replacement excessive?" You can also ask the contactor "How much wood repacement do you anticipate on my house? Will you take pictures of the replaced wood for me before you cover it with roofing? Are there any other hidden charges?"
 
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Get 3 or 4 Roofing contractor Estimates

As a Roofing contractor myself I'd say get as many estimates as possible, they are free. Rotted wood can be scary and I'd say unless you've had many years experience, stay off the roof. I've fallen through rotted sheeting before. A barrel roof is not going to be any easy job for the un-experienced person or even roofer. If you insist on getting on the roof, first thing to do is establish a fall protection system by bolting an anchor on the peak of the roof and connecting a lifeline to the anchor and the other end to your body preferably with an Osha Approved harness and rope or strap. Don't play with your life, its too easy for things to break loose and your gone. Anchors are cheap, harness and rope $75. Preferably bolt to a beam if possible, after roofing you can re-install and flash around it so its always there if you need it later.

Rotted wood seems to always leed to more rotted wood. Rotted plywood leeds to Rotted rafters or truss's. Guess what? You can't nail new wood to rotted wood, then the rafter needs repaired or scabbed...so then it all starts adding up quickly. As said before, sometimes you never know until the old roofing is off. Sometimes a heavy loaded roof can be removed and the plyood bows from the stress of the weight being removed. Wood is flexible.

As far as the elastomeric coating goes, I have used coatings commercially for about 15 years. Todays coatings are better than ever if used to the manufacturers specs. Coatings are great for .5 to 3 Pitch with proper drainage. In this case I'd say its a no go, you could probley find one that would do the job but the cost would be outrageous for the life you'd get...In other words, not cost efficient. You'd think some of these coatings are made of liquid gold with the prices they charge, I've seen some costing $300/Gallon.

If it were mine I'd probley strip the roof, fix all rotted wood and then maybe install a 25 - 30 year Architechtural shingle roof.
Its all exspensive, anyway you go, Sometimes you can get alot for the old shingles as mentioned before, do some research on the web to find a buyer or even run an auction on ebay. Sometimes you can't get alot for them and it might not be feesable to handle with care when removing them because it takes alot more time to stack them, clean them, store them and ect. You never know. We charge $100 for the first sheet of plywood replacement and $65 per sheet afterwards on a standard roof for 1/2 inch plywood. We replace 1/2 sheet minimum sizes since replacing a whole sheet for a small rotted corner would be silly and a waste of resources, instead of replacing the whole sheet we'd just replace half. Sometimes depending on the structure a whole sheet may need replaced if just the corner is rotted but only in very limited circumstances. Even if just a half sheet is replaced, it is the same charge as a whole sheet. We usually charge $2 - $5 per linear foot when scabbing a truss, since alot of times you may need to remove even more plywood to install it. It can get to be a big circle, this supports that which supports that which supports this. On a barrel roof it may be more difficult to scab rafters with the arch, just depends where the ones that need scabbing are and if you'll need scaffolding to work from the inside or can it be reached without scaffolds or ladders. Make shure plywood clips are used if possible, they let the plywood exspand and contract without bowing later on, if not possible to use them..leave a 1/8" gap between sheets, do not butt.

After all wood replacement is made.....
I think your cheapest route is going to be a 35-30 year architechtural shingle.
First install self adhering storm shield directly over the clean plywwod decking for a good bond, starting from the bottom going up overlap each following row (going sideways) 6 inches over previous row and then at the end laps.
Bring up both sides (right side building roof and left side building roof) till you get to the top middle then run your last row down the middle on the peak overlapping both of the last right and left side runs. Storm shield will seal around any nails you put in after this step.
Then install 30 lb. roofing felt in the same manner as the Storm shield using
1-1/4 incch roofing nails..hand nailing the felt is prefered.
Start the felt by cutting in half (down the middle long ways as rolling out),
start with a half sheet to offset with laps of the strom shield, so there will not be lap on lap which will cause a thicker build up and may be noticeable after roofing.
Then, your ready to start laying shingles baby.
I would use 3 tab shingles for starters up the edges and on the starter row (1st bottom row across) for a crisper cleaner look, Might look into drip edge depending on the situation where you are. As the shingles are nailed the Storm shield automatically seals around the nails and that will give alot of protection up top where its sort of flater. The directions to installing the shingles are on the package, I wouldn't use 3 tabs as the slits will make easy way for leaks in 10 years. Use the architech shingles..not that much more exspense.
Remember, never nail your shingles too high as they will start falling off if the roofing gets direct sunlight and 90 degree tempretures where you live.
This is because of the steepness on the sides of the barrel roof, so don't nail high. Also, not seeing the roof I might be cocerned with the capping and may run another run of 30 lb. felt before capping. On the Package of shingles it may indicate to offset each shingle 6 inches (stagger your roofing shingle joints 6 inches from the previous row) but I would stagger 12", makes it harder for water to find a way in in very windy conditions.
I'd think $85/ per square should cover nails, stormshield, felt and shingles..all but wood replacement and labor. Labor will probley run about $100/ per square or $1 per square foot for tearing off and installing all but wood replacement.

You might want to look into the building codes in your area as they differ from region to region, call your local building standards dept and run it by them, just make shure if in doubt..also check with your neighborhood association if you have one. Just some suggestions for ya.

C Jollie
C & M Contractors
Charlotte,NC
 
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