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Roofers! Is this what I should be expecting? Holy ********************! One meeting and I'm already considering doing it myself. I just finished my first "appointment" with a potential roofer. Short version - I told him to get out after a half hour.

He spent 10 - 15 minutes showing me 'testimonials'. Fine, I appreciate the need for that.
Then he measured the house. When he came back in I asked him if the ice build-up on the front of the house meant that I needed any kind of special shingle or tar paper. He said no that the pitch of my roof was fine. I asked him how much it was pitched he mumbled something about it being "fine". When I pressed him he said it was 30 or 40 degress. I asked him if they ever install products made by Grace and he didn't know what they were.Then I asked him if I had a ridge vent. He said no - I asked if I needed one. He said, and I quote "If you want one we can put one in but I think your ventilation is fine." I asked how you could tell if ventilation was fine and he responded that "as long as you're comfortable, you know, the upstairs is comfortable" then the ventilation is good (he hadn't been upstairs). When he asked what color shingle I wanted I told him my wife had to choose and that we weren't doing a deal today anyway (I had explained that thoroughly to the 'lead' guy that was canvassing the neighborhood on Saturday). He started to get aggravated about the wife not being there. He wrote up a work sheet and gave me a price on the back of his business card. When I asked how big the roof was he said "well, it's pretty big". I asked him what kind of measurement they use and he said he doesn't usually go into that. At that point I handed him his card back and told him I wouldn't be needing it if he couldn't even tell me something simple like how big my roof is.
So far, no good :(
 

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Rich, I've been through a lot of roofers lately and it sounds like you got a real doozy. My worst one quoted me felt and shingles after I told him that I wanted Grace and metal but at least he measured.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Grumpy said:
Sounds like a salesman, not a roofer :)

Question: Did he work for a roofing company or some type of do-it-all general contractor?

You responded to a neighborhood canvas guy?
Siding, windows, roofs GC. Well established. H.I. and insurance work.
 

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Grumpy said:
You responded to a neighborhood canvas guy?
He happened to walk up to me while I was getting in my truck the other morning. Told the guy I wanted a new roof in the spring. Took my name and number and called me the next day to meet that afternoon. :rolleyes:
 

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first off i take your a home owner the guy screwed up by meeting you without your wife present. all so sounds to me like youn know more than the slaesman so why don't you install it yourself? did you ask them where there working so you could go check out there work? i would not of gave up any info their either without your wife present would of simply measured checked your attic underside if fessible. and scheduled another time with you. i am a business owner not a salesman however sounds like you were pushing hard looking for something wrong.
 

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Grumpy said:
Sounds like a salesman, not a roofer :)
Bah! Sounds like a roofer certainly not a saleman! The guy doesn't have the first clue on how to sell. I hope you are training your salesmen better than that guy.
 

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Pipeguy, I go through this kind of stuff all the time as a homeowner who knows too much. I posted a story here once where I went through something like 15 plumbers to run a new gas line for me until I finally found one who could talk inteligently about sizing the line according to BTUs. And those are 15 licensed by the state of Colorado plumbers.
 

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Mike Finley said:
Pipeguy, I go through this kind of stuff all the time as a homeowner who knows too much. I posted a story here once where I went through something like 15 plumbers to run a new gas line for me until I finally found one who could talk inteligently about sizing the line according to BTUs. And those are 15 licensed by the state of Colorado plumbers.
Going through that right now with central air and a J load. Everone seems to want to eyeball it. If I did'nt want it to run right I'd put the fucc'n thing in and knock the tin myself
 

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vinylguy said:
first off i take your a home owner the guy screwed up by meeting you without your wife present. all so sounds to me like youn know more than the slaesman so why don't you install it yourself? did you ask them where there working so you could go check out there work? i would not of gave up any info their either without your wife present would of simply measured checked your attic underside if fessible. and scheduled another time with you. i am a business owner not a salesman however sounds like you were pushing hard looking for something wrong.
You've got to be kidding me:eek: , those are perfectly ligitimate questions to ask, homeowner or not, wife present or not. And, those were completely boneheaded responses to said questions. I don't see how any of this can be construed as "looking for fault" in this clown. Do you practice this approach with new potentials? Not to be overly criticle, but I sure hope you don't use the grammer you employ in here to correspond with your own clients.:)
 

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Bonesaw, judging from the responses the "salesman" gave Pipe, it's possible the guy was a tool anyhow, but more often than not when people are tire kicking they want every last once of info they can get to make it easier on others coming into give estimates or so they know what to look for to price out doing the job themselves and feeling satisfied the they saved money. I'm sure we've all heard the customer say, "you dont need to measure anything, the last guy said it was X square, or x big." they mainly try to do all the price checking brain picking over the phone to be sure the first guy was in the ball park or if there's better deals out there. I can bet we've all had peole call for off the hip prices even though we really push to come out and look for an accurate estimate...I've learned this is just a warning of a non serious customer with no intentions of using us other than price checking.

My sales pitch sucks so I can relate to the guy, but I dont think I'm that bad LOL. I try to get all the facts at least and would've wanted to peak in the attic to check ventilation for a complete and accurate estimate and ability to answer and suggest anyways to make your new roof last longer and house stay warmer/cooler and upsell services, but as for accurate dimensions-customers dont get'em period, if they want'em they can do it themselves and not waste my time.

Me personally, I respect guys in the trades and I never call anybody out without full intention of having work done within the next few days or when they're schedule allows, I hate tire kickers and so does everybody else with families and lives so I try to respect all in this aspect of the work.:)
 

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The two original questions I think were irrelevant to a bid were 1. how big is my roof. 2. what is the pitch.

The problem with "how big is my roof" is waste factors and rounding. Some guys will factor in more for waste than others. Some guys round up more than others. So if I say your roof is 21 square and somebody else says its 22 square or 20 square its not relevent. If I'm 3 bundles over I return them, if I'm 3 bundles short I go buy more. The price I gave you doesn't change either way. And I rarely actually measure pitch either. Unless I need to know if its less than a 4:12 and needs double felt. Otherwise my eyeball is pretty good. I don't much care if its a 6:12 or a 7:12. I care if its a walker, If I need to jack the bottom only or jack the whole dang thing.
 

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IHI said:
Me personally, I respect guys in the trades and I never call anybody out without full intention of having work done within the next few days or when they're schedule allows, I hate tire kickers and so does everybody else with families and lives so I try to respect all in this aspect of the work.:)
Ditto:thumbsup:

pipeguy said:
He spent 10 - 15 minutes showing me 'testimonials'. Fine, I appreciate the need for that.
Who begins a new customer meeting by showing testimonials?:rolleyes:

pipeguy said:
I asked him how much it was pitched he mumbled something about it being "fine". When I pressed him he said it was 30 or 40 degress.
What's so hard about answering that? Make something up if you don't know exactly. I don't know 1 roofer who refers to pitch in degrees.

pipeguy said:
I asked him if they ever install products made by Grace and he didn't know what they were
:eek:

pipeguy said:
Then I asked him if I had a ridge vent. He said no - I asked if I needed one. He said, and I quote "If you want one we can put one in but I think your ventilation is fine." I asked how you could tell if ventilation was fine and he responded that "as long as you're comfortable, you know, the upstairs is comfortable" then the ventilation is good (he hadn't been upstairs)
Oh, so that's what ridge vent is for, upstairs comfort:thumbsup: and all this time I was thinking it was to maintain balance in temp and humidity between both sides of the roof so you don't have ice damming and condensation rotting away your roof, drywall and insulation:blink:

pipeguy said:
When he asked what color shingle I wanted I told him my wife had to choose and that we weren't doing a deal today anyway (I had explained that thoroughly to the 'lead' guy that was canvassing the neighborhood on Saturday). He started to get aggravated about the wife not being there. He wrote up a work sheet and gave me a price on the back of his business card. When I asked how big the roof was he said "well, it's pretty big". I asked him what kind of measurement they use and he said he doesn't usually go into that.
UNPROFESSIONAL, makes us all look stupid
 

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The two original questions I think were irrelevant to a bid were 1. how big is my roof. 2. what is the pitch.
Are you serious??:eek: Irrelevant?

Q - "How big is my roof?".....it's a simple question, and a simple answer. It's either, "I don't know, I eyeballed it and guessed" or "XX squares". I can absolutely see your point about rounding and waste, but I also think "duuhh, OH, PRETTY BIG:w00t: " isn't the right answer either. I would try something more like "Well according to a ground measurement and pitch factors, it's XX squares...of course there's always waste, and this WAS a ground measurement after-all, so the number on your bid will be more like YY squares"

Q - "What is the pitch?"...If you don't have a sight with you, then guess. You can get close with a guess and make it clear that it's an educated guess, nothing more. I, too, have never...ever heard a roof pitch called out in degrees by a roofer who was worth a $#!+.

When all else fails, I have alot more respect for the guy who says "Ya know what, I really don't know. I don't have the equipment with me to answer that right now, BUT I can find out (or I'll let you know before we finalize anything)."

BTW Pipe, I don't know where you live (I'm in the reply screen and can't see even if you have that info public), but if I was getting my roof done (in the midwest) and the guy said I didn't need Grace because "with the pitch it'd 'be OK'", that'd be an instant goodbye.
 

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IHI said:
Bonesaw, judging from the responses the "salesman" gave Pipe, it's possible the guy was a tool anyhow, but more often than not when people are tire kicking they want every last once of info they can get to make it easier on others coming into give estimates or so they know what to look for to price out doing the job themselves and feeling satisfied the they saved money. I'm sure we've all heard the customer say, "you dont need to measure anything, the last guy said it was X square, or x big." they mainly try to do all the price checking brain picking over the phone to be sure the first guy was in the ball park or if there's better deals out there. I can bet we've all had peole call for off the hip prices even though we really push to come out and look for an accurate estimate...I've learned this is just a warning of a non serious customer with no intentions of using us other than price checking.

My sales pitch sucks so I can relate to the guy, but I dont think I'm that bad LOL. I try to get all the facts at least and would've wanted to peak in the attic to check ventilation for a complete and accurate estimate and ability to answer and suggest anyways to make your new roof last longer and house stay warmer/cooler and upsell services, but as for accurate dimensions-customers dont get'em period, if they want'em they can do it themselves and not waste my time.

Me personally, I respect guys in the trades and I never call anybody out without full intention of having work done within the next few days or when they're schedule allows, I hate tire kickers and so does everybody else with families and lives so I try to respect all in this aspect of the work.:)

This post reflects my intial impression of the original post. Sounds like you were wasting your time as well as the sales/roofers time.

Pipe I thought you were a contractor? Do you not have connections?
 

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Gordo said:
This post reflects my intial impression of the original post. Sounds like you were wasting your time as well as the sales/roofers time.
I highly doubt that Pipe had any intentions of wasting anyone's time. He was approached by a rep from the roofing company, needed a new roof and scheduled an appointment. My impression is that he was merely asking similar types of questions that get asked of him, albeit with a different subject matter. My guess is that he asked the same questions to whoever else he got quotes from and eventually hired.

Just my $0.02 worth...
 

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jproffer,
perhaps I wasn't clear in my point. When I go do an estimate, I measure a roof. I climb up on 99% of the roofs I measure. Even a 12/12 pitch, if theres a valley I can scramble up. I measure every roof. I make numerous notes on layers, step flashing, chimney flashing, pipe collars, skylites, siding, all sorts of details. When I come down off the roof I am prepared to discuss relevent issues with the homeowner. What sort of venting, how much ice shield, flashing details etc. Whats included in an estimate, drip edge, collars new steps etc. But "how big is my roof?" My answer to that is, "all I'v taken is linear measurments sir, I will work up your estimate back at the office.

For a homeowner to ask what is my pitch or how big is roof, are not relevant questions the homeowner should be asking. He should be asking questions about details pertaining to the finished product. After I tell him he has a 6:12 pitch, whats next? How much gas is in my tank? Do I wear boxers or briefs?
 
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