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Discussion Starter #1
This is more rant/stress reliever than anything, but feel free to chime in with any pointers/hints/real life experience etc...

Well, broken knee has put me in a tough spot since i cant do anything needing any real lifting power since knee gives out, I cannot bend right knee to a 90* angle so kneeling is out of the question, find myself literally having to fall to the ground and lay on side to work on low items LMAO!!!! :eek: So to take the load off, hired a guy.

Guy I hired "has been doing construction work since he got out of high school" and "worked as building maintenance for an apartment complex he used to live in" Well.....first day on job site I found out differently, SOB did'nt even know which end of a hammer to hold onto, stood around and watched me and only did what I asked of him, no more no less. Nice enough kid and never complains when asked to do something, but I started him out paywise what I "thought" he was worth for starting pay, but ends up about $2 more an hour than he should be. I've lost my temper-I do not belittle anybody-but made it clear on a few tasks I assigned him after he screwed them up 2-3 times I was really disgusted. After one day in the feild on the way home he said-"if you want to fire me I understand", I asked what's going on, I thought you've done this kind of work before. His reply was he just picked up and got material when needed, a "gopher"

Just brought my brother on board Monday, he's been working for a construction company for about 4 years that mainly dealed with siding large spec homes for big generals. He works hard, pay attention to detail and does a great job, but is slow in doing the work. Plus I'm stuck just standing around the job sites, since one guy is no good at anything except picking up and getting tools, and the other has never dealt with remodels, tile, door installs, framing.

So what do I do? I've thought about after my surgery and I'm back to being able to work firing the dipstick and have it just my brother and I since he's trainable. But on the same token I have some LARGE siding jobs coming up and would like to have dipstick be the cut man for my brother since i know brother can handle the siding jobs while I attack other projects. Would it be right to tell gopher he has 2 options, 1. your fired or 2. if you want to learn this trade I will allow you to stay on board, but at the cost of a $2/hr pay cut, then let him make the descion. He's yet to show any ambietion, never asks how or why things are done the way I do them or purpose, he just stands there waiting for an order to come his way. I know if I wanna be a successful person I need to surround myself with people that are as good as or better than me, but I dont want to jump the gun and have a big payroll overhead and take the chance of losing everything later.

Thanks for the "ears"

Josh
 

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I see nothing wrong with re-evaluating the pay. It's an honest days pay for an honest days work in my book. A simple conversation explaining that "Things aren't working out as planned and some how we had a miscommunication involving pay rate and experience level. I can keep you at $X an hour temporarily for now and you can get back up to where you are now if you develop the skill sets to earn the higher pay level, or I will have to let you go and find somebody else. What would you like to do?"
 

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IHI said:
SOB did'nt even know which end of a hammer to hold onto, stood around and watched me and only did what I asked of him, no more no less. He's yet to show any ambietion, never asks how or why things are done the way I do them or purpose, he just stands there waiting for an order to come his way.. I know if I wanna be a successful person I need to surround myself with people that are as good as or better than me
I think employees begrudge the employer any cut in pay. Employees with a grudge are dangerous. I'm not at alll a fan of paycuts except in certain cases where long term employees can be made aware, through detailed discussions, that corporate survival hinges on short term cost reductions. That being said, if you're intent on keeping the guy I'd only cut his pay if and when he can, on his own accord, fully appreciate the difference between what you expected to be getting from him as a new hire, in terms of skill sets and work attitudes, and what you are actually getting. Even then, only after he had grasped the reasons for cutting his pay and could articulate them to me, if I was intent on keeping him I'd probably ask him to tell me what he thought was a fair wage and set it at that.

As far as hiring people that are as good as or better than you - I don't know about that. One thing is for sure - if you want to be the company 'leader' then you need to hire people who are inclined to follow - that may not be people who are 'better' than you. I'd say more important is hiring people whose workplace values are, in a large degree, in line with yours.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Pipe, I totally agree with you on the grudge thing. Only thing is this kid is D.U.M.B. with all capital letters, I dont think he's smart enough to know what a grudge is to tell you the truth!! ;)

After I'm back on my feet, think I'll just put another ad out for help, and if i find the right guy or a better grunt I'll just have to pull a Donald- "Your Fired" wasting money right now. Never knew I was such a bad sum beeotch until recently hiring guys and found it took 2 of them twice as long as it takes just me to do the same job alone!!!! That's the other thing I've having a hard time dealing with! :evil:
 

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Reguarding the dipstick, Sit down down and figure your next project to the nuts and bolts of the install/labor, figure out what part he may be capable of, but is still a little beyond his reach in witts, then tell the maggot to rise to the occasion. Somtimes I've found in you give them info on way, where not, what kinda warranty, it inspires them........Go figure?........

Bob
 

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IHI, this isn't intended to sound insulting against you but if he can't be too dumb since he pulled the veil over your eyes. Perhaps he's just very green. Then again perhaps he is dumb, I've never met the person.

If you feel the kid has any potential I'd do what Mr. Finley suggested. If you truly feel he is dumb, or you just don't have the resources to train, then let him go. One of the beautiful things about dealing with a greenhorn is you get to train them to do it your way!

As far as finding someone that can do it all as well as you can, you're never going to find that. All those people already opened their own businesses.
 

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As far as finding someone that can do it all as well as you can, you're never going to find that. All those people already opened their own businesses.
Word. To be a boss means to let go and delegate, and trust your employees to do the job they are paid to do. If they don't live up to your expectations, then either reitterate their job description and/or your quality expectations, or trim the fat (fire them).
 

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I had a problem with somebody once in regard to dressing safely and dress code on the job. I clearly said over and over again that you have to wear jeans and boots to protect yourself on the job site. Wouldn't listen no matter how many times I told them. Also kept getting covered with grease and stuff, just looked bad in front of the homeowner. I know because the homeowner kept staring at this worker all the time.

 

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Discussion Starter #10
LMAO, Mike, I actually had a gal that was early forties apply, no construction experience but worked in factory for years and had a body that would not stop. I almost thought about hiring her as a marketing ploy, go talk to bigger generals, they pay me to work and get to stare at eye candy all day while we're there :Thumbs:

Jason: Waterloo area

Grump, I dont take any internet stuff as insults, especially on a board I'm inquiring about. Yes I was bambozzled, shame on me:) This kid just has a weird personna about him, nice kid-when he talks, he's gone entire days without saying a word, but has had homies ask questions and he's very nice/professional in how he answers them for a grunt. He will not offer up any innative (sp), instead of just standing there, he could ask is there anything I can do, or there could be a mess in front of him that could be loaded in the truck for the dump and he wont move until I ask him. He's had 2 good days in 3 weeks where he actually acted like he had a clue, but 2 in 21 days aint a good ratio. I thought to myself also, train a green horn like I want, but when things are'nt retained and he has no "will" to learn it seems like a dead horse in the whole aspect. I'm just upset he's over paid for what he knows and know how I feel when homies try not to pay amount agreed on.

I've never had problems running crews in the past before I was owner, but the guys under me had been doing this for years so everybody knew their job and I was the boss technically, but not really since I did'nt need to police anybody as we all knew our job and just did it. I could hire more experienced, just dont want the huge overhead associated with that as of yet, but as these jobs keep pouring in, I'm getting backed into a corner where this might be the only option.

Glass: your term "maggot" has been and will forever be burned in my memory since I came to this board LOL!! :cheesygri
 

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That Lorenzo's got one hell of an imagination :Thumbs: .
 

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IHI said:
He will not offer up any innative (sp), instead of just standing there, he could ask is there anything I can do, or there could be a mess in front of him that could be loaded in the truck for the dump and he wont move until I ask him.
It sounds like you like him, and it sounds like he is likeable which maybe part of the problem or not?

What you said reminds me of when I was 16 years old and started my first job as a bus boy in a greek restaurant. The owner was full blooded Greek and was a self-made millionare when it was all said and done. He had no problems letting you know what he expected of you.

I can remember the very 1st night working, I was assigned to clean some pots and pans, and having only 16 years of life experience I was slowly moving my scrubbing pad around doing what I thought was expected. The greek owner came up to me and watch me for about 60 seconds then told me "Michael, this is not your kitchen at home. This is work, you have to be fast and work hard here because I am paying you to work." He then told me to step aside and proceeded to scrub the hell out a pot going 90 mph at it. After he was done he handed me the scrub pad and said now you do it. I couldn't keep up with what he had done, but I started scrubbing about 10 times faster than I was before.

I got 'it' from then on, but I had to be told and shown because I had no idea what was expected from me a 16 years old.

Do you think this guy could be the same way? Does he just need to be shown what is expected of him? Maybe he just doesn't know 'it' yet?
 

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or 2. if you want to learn this trade I will allow you to stay on board, but at the cost of a $2/hr pay cut, then let him make the descion.
This would be the path that I'd choose, as long as you know that in most states if a person quits because of a pay adjustment of 10% or more, they can still collect unemployment compensation.
 

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mdshunk said:
...in most states if a person quits because of a pay adjustment of 10% or more, they can still collect unemployment compensation.
MOST states? Yeah, and spiders can lay eggs under your skin while you sleep. :eek:
Like they say in one of those farm type states that allegedly exist somewhere outside of Washington's beltway "show me".
 

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PipeGuy said:
MOST states? Yeah, and spiders can lay eggs under your skin while you sleep. :eek:
Like they say in one of those farm type states that allegedly exist somewhere outside of Washington's beltway "show me".
Actually, when I checked my unemployment legal guide, it says all states have "material change" laws. An employee can quit because of a material change in their job which would leave a reasonable person no alternative. Such examples are substantial change in job responsibilities, change in job duties which require a person to perform work in which they are physically unfit for, change in shift, and change in pay of 20% or greater. I was incorrect when I said 10%, the benchmark is apparently 20%. Additionally (something I just learned as I looked this stuff up just now), a person can file for at least partial unemployment for any wage reduction, even if they remain employed. The laws vary from state to state as to how much (if any) parial unemployment compensation the person will receive. SO... if you hire a guy at 20 bucks and reduce him to 16, he can quit with cause and collect unemployment or at least file for partial.
 

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HERE IS A HONEST SUGGESTION. IT SEEMS TO ME A TRAINED MAN MIGHT NOT BE EASY TO FIND AND IF YOU DO YOU WILL PAY A PREMIUM FOR HIM. I WOULD BE HONEST WITH THE GUY TELL HIM I GOING TO REDUCE HIS PAY AND THE REASON WHY. TELL HIM YOUR WILLING TO TEACH HIM IF HE IS INTERESTED. YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TELL IF HE IS LEARNING. HE MIGHT TURN OUT TO BE A GOOD EMPLOYEE BECAUSE OF THE CHANCE YOU GAVE HIM. I SPENT QUITE OF FEW YEARS OF MY LIFE TRAINING PILOTS IN THE AIRFORCE BEFORE I RETIRED AND DECIDED TO FLY FOR AMERICAN AIRLINES. I DIDN'T MIND TRAINING ALONG AS I SEEN PROGRESS. :Thumbs:

MIKE FINLEY GREAT PICTURE MEASURE TWICE CUT ONCE!!!! :Thumbs: :Thumbs: :Thumbs: :cheesygri
 

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How about this, if he can't seem to do anything else, put him in the position we put all our rejects, have him sell roofs for ya.

I'm seriously just kidding Grump.:cheesygri

Bob
 

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IHA

In reply to your situation on the g-horn . I will tell you what you do call american air lines book me a flight and let me come run your company for you while your down . I spent 5 years as a cut man can burry 2 installers like nothing . Cut a whole package and head to another befor the guys are done doing the first . Have that one done and on the way home and back bitching the next morning why isnt this second house done! I install the same way . I own my own company here in texas and am very busy and able for adventure . Anyways if we ever get slow and you are looking for someone to come burry your green horn contact me via my website or here and we can talk shop .
 

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Discussion Starter #19
LOL, only had one building project thus far with the kid. Building standard garage and was trying to teach layout, cripples, jacks, etc...and why they are the way they are. Came time to frame and he could'nt keep up carrying 2x's that were only 8' away from area LOL!! Then I had him try the nail gun...what do I get out of that, i drove a friggin 16d just over the top of my birdie finger on the left hand that went right under the cutical and came out almost to the big knuckle on that finger literally ripping my finger wide open....cause: maggot's nail hit a knot and he got a pin prick and yelped like it was the end of the world-I happened to look up at same time nail gun was in motion to drive nail and I musta jerked and obviously missed my mark :eek:

Just let it bleed out until I got that wall framed up bleeding like a stuffed pig and made the kid whoozey LOL!! Then I told him how to layout and install the ceiling cord braces-2hrs later he had 2 bottom truss cords nailed and had the board running at some funkey azz angle that was nowhere near 90* to the cord itself, told him to take it off and do it again. Same thing except this time he did 3 in 1 hr and had the baord running angled the other way and nothing was 24" oc, one was 23, other was 22.5" and last was 23.75....WTF!!!! :eek: Told him to rip it off and go find stuff to pick up and throw in the dumpster the rest of the day
 

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IHI said:
... and nothing was 24" oc, one was 23, other was 22.5" and last was 23.75....WTF!!!! :eek: Told him to rip it off and go find stuff to pick up and throw in the dumpster the rest of the day
I never realized until I actually was "in charge" of people how many new guys can't read a tape rule. I had one new guy that sorta could. He read it in "nicks and clicks"!? "Fourty-three and one half and one nick and a click", I would hear him say to himself.
 
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