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Goin' Down in Flames....
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4,889 Posts
This whole conversation is pretty much meaningless until we find out if the "worker" is an employee, or a sub-contractor.

If it's a sub, then what is specified in the contract?
 

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2,768 Posts
wrong warren. every job gets 3 sheets of plywood just in case. my real beef isnt with him using his material, i just made an example about him using his nails and asking for 25 bucks after i gave him so much work . i also get pissed when he changes a piece of plywood and asks for smal change.. we are a team. he knows the drill. he gets paid for changing pywood if it exceeds 3 pieces, same with fascia board. although fascia is more than 2 is exceeded.
If the job is supplied so well then why is he using his materials? Also what is the difference between small change and real money? If you have 5000.00 then 500.00 is small change. If you only have 500.00 500.00 is big money. Maybe you should look at this from a different point of view? And is he a sub or an employee?
 

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DavidC
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2,550 Posts
wrong warren. every job gets 3 sheets of plywood just in case. my real beef isnt with him using his material, i just made an example about him using his nails and asking for 25 bucks after i gave him so much work . i also get pissed when he changes a piece of plywood and asks for smal change.. we are a team. he knows the drill. he gets paid for changing pywood if it exceeds 3 pieces, same with fascia board. although fascia is more than 2 is exceeded.
As far as I'm concerned this it it in a nutshell. This is the reverse case of the guys that complain about not getting paid by the client who has more money than the catholic church.

You are not giving him work, as in not getting something out of it. You are making a fair exchange and both are receiving something of value. If you didn't feel you were than you'd have already parted ways. So how much you "give" him has no bearing on the fact that he wants to be treated fairly.

If his work is well enough that you want to keep using him and this nit picky idea bothers you enough, prove what a good businessman you are and add a few bucks to the job to cover it. You seem to know it's coming. Mark it up, add enough to cover your time griping about it and enjoy your bonus.

Or, as Bam says, get another. Something about the devil you know comes to mind though.

Good Luck
Dave
 

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Vendor
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77 Posts
I am not following on many different levels....

It's always more annoying when it's happening to you. Lol. A lot of times it is the little things and the context that drive people crazy. I deal with some people that just annoy the chit out of me,
Over little things like that and many other things.
I cannot agree more. One guy I would gladly be agreeing to all the nickle and diming, another, just based on the way he approached me would drive me crazy. Hate to admit it, but sometimes that's just how it is!

But on the other end, it adds up when you start putting in your own dime. Seems little at first, but the guy probably added it up and realized it was worth the effort asking...
 

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WICKED WOODCHUCKER
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893 Posts
I dont sub much out, but when I do, I make sure that all the material is there. If I were to sub out a roof, there would be plenty of ridge vent, nails, paper, shingles, etc.

If i figure on needing 2 boxes of nails, I get three! and that goes for all other materials too. I hate running for just a couple things. After the job is done either keep it for stock or return it!
 

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Head Grunt
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3,270 Posts
Anyone working for me is paid hourly, if they offer their own materials that i do not have then we make an agreement of payment before it is used. If someone uses their own without asking i most often replace what they used with the same material or an agreed payment. I most often choose not to use their materials unless i have no choice or it is free. Too much hassle of who's is who's and what it is worth.
 

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I don't know exactly how it works in the siding world but this guy is a siding salesman/supplier. He supplies and the sub installs. He's not a GC, he sells supply and install to homeowners and GC's. And they most certainly are a team. Many of the siders i know work 95% for one supplier

As a sub I can understand where both sides are concerned. Sometimes I'm just itching to install and make money but little things are holding me back. At these times I want to charge. other times a GC I do a lot of work for won't have the house wrap up. It's there but I put it up at the same time I'm putting up flashing. Probably adds 15mins to my day. i think it would be ridiculous to charge for that. If that happened on every job though I'd be adding it into my sqft price.

My suggestion. Tell the guy to add $50 to every bill and don't put it on the invoice or call it misc. he gets his money, sometimes more sometimes less, and you don't have to see these little charges.
 

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I sub alot. Post #12 by Complete is the way we do business. I don't mind supplying some material-at times. It save you and me both. Me in time wasted and you in time completed. A few bucks, I don't mind. But hey, my bottom line is as important as yours. Is it better to have an installer that completes the job and with great craftsmanship or do you want a guy stopping because you didn't supply enough material. You look better when he completes the work in a timely manner.

Perhaps you should ask him to supply an estimate of materials to see who is closer to reality.
 

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KemoSabe
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14,233 Posts
Easiest way to avoid being billed for the nickels and dimes is to spend them yourself. If you think he is penny pinching for wanting to get paid for using his material, stop penny pinching yourself and make sure adequate supplies are on the job. Just make sure to inform him that if he removes your leftover material from the job, he will be charged accordingly, possibly criminally.......or you could just pay him for his material.
 

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Superior Firepower
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5,089 Posts
wrong warren. every job gets 3 sheets of plywood just in case. my real beef isnt with him using his material, i just made an example about him using his nails and asking for 25 bucks after i gave him so much work . i also get pissed when he changes a piece of plywood and asks for smal change.. we are a team. he knows the drill. he gets paid for changing pywood if it exceeds 3 pieces, same with fascia board. although fascia is more than 2 is exceeded.
I've met the white, patent pleather shoe, paper contractors. They show up to get the checks in their new diesel duallies and send out their flunky teams to do the actual work.
Have you ever tried to replace a sheet of plywood shear panel or roof diaphram (nailed 8d every 6" of the perimeter and every 12" in the field)?
That is approx. 132 nails to pull, then handle that away, grab a full sheet, resheet with the same nailing pattern onto those overnailed studs or rafters.
Somebody is getting screwed at those terms. I'd be looking at Change Orders for 1, 2 or 3 sheets, more than that is big $$$.
Facia, hanging off a ladder sideways with a 24' 2x8 in one hand is not a freebe either.
Your guys are doing the work for free but the home owner is paying you through the nose for add ons. Lucky Bux for you?
Your teams need to revolt.
 

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Reet
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429 Posts
If he just does the work and you supply materials..on you.

If he is subcontracting with you, and the conditions on contract are that he supplies materials and labor..on him


Kind of seems like you think people owe you something because you give them work. But they are making you money(hopefully anyway). Things happen in this business, its on the owner/contractor to account for them. Me, id reimburse..guy gets the job done, does good work. You are really just nickle and diming yourself. Easy fix-Put more in the bid, just assume you need an extra 20 or 30. Win win. Quit whining about it.

Guy that you can rely on, does the work right..thats worth something. You have a relationship with your employees just as you do your clients. Sometimes in life the small things you do to keep fair are remembered by those when YOU are in a time of need. Just some small advice, .02.
 

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Every now and then poster
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13,436 Posts
ohiohomedoctor said:
I am on the side of the people who think $25 is cheap and it would cost you much more than that to deal with the improperly stocked jobs. You should give him $50 next time and thank him for giving a chit because most guys would just call you and make it your problem.
Tom, thats what he said..
 

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WW, how would you feel if on every job, your supplier just shorted your order a box of nails, or a roll of paper, or some ridge vent, or whatever they happened to miss on the order- and expected you to go buy it and add it to their delivery? On your dollar, of course.

After all they're a great supplier, and they provide superior materials. And they do give you excellent pricing on all the rest of your materials. And they're very dependable - your materials always show up to the customer location on time..... And remember, supplying those missed things on "your dime" just makes you a valuable part of the "team" in THEIR eyes!

......Bet your perspective of nickels, dimes & teams would be significantly different. Really fast. I also bet it wouldn't take you 8 years to realize the way they were jerking your chain, all the while yapping about what an awesome supplier they were!

1.) Pay the man.

2.) Quit whining. There are things that actually deserve your attention. THIS is NOT one of them.

3.) Re-evaluate how highly you think of yourself. You are not Mr Wonderful. You are not the ultimate guy to work for, no matter how much you pay or work you offer. You just showed your true colors with this little stink bomb. Learn from it & try to BECOME the ultimate guy to work for......

Best wishes in resolving things.

And answer that pesky thing of sub vs employee, will 'ya?......
 
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