[WildWill]

He is taking care of things as they come up.....and then charging for it. Sounds like a keeper to me.

 

[DavidC]

Will there be another thread started soon?

Would it sound like; "Jeez, my boss is a real cheapskate. He hired me to hang some siding but I found out that some plywood needed to be replaced before I could finish and there was a rotted window sill to repair. I fixed them and gave him a bill for materials and labor and he flipped out about the extra costs.

Seems like he wants me to work for free. I'll have to ask him which one of my kids will get smaller helpings at dinner to help me be able to afford to help him save money enough so he can tell the customer no charge."

Good Luck
Dave

 

[darr1]

i dont mind going to the van and getting things out to use like screws , nails any little bits like that , i also dont mind doing a little extra on a job but there is limits and it adds up imagine them little bits cost him 40 dollars every job and then add time , so while i under stand what your saying , i would imagine there is something different to why you have these feelings towards him

 

[CompleteW&D]

i always pay. never ever do i refrain from that. i just get pissed of when i am being nickeled and dimed. i have great relationships with all my workers and subs. i consider myself as being very successful and have a very good rep amongst workers.
as a successful businessman, if i am making a nice chunk of change off a siding job and a few small issues arise that may consume an hours worth of extra work, im not going to say anything..i might bring it up after final payment is submitted so the customer knows i took care of them..thats called good/ smart business. at the same time, my subs are making good money as well..to nickel and dime me for SMALL things is just stupid .. i know other owners of companies get pissed as well. most of my guys do some extra tasks and as i said, never even mention it because it wasnt very time consuming..if it is, of. ourse they should be paid.
lets say a sub is making 3500 off a siding job then when i go and pay him, he says i owe him and extra 32 bucks for some nails.. that **** pisses me off especially when i am giving him so much work.. lets say he gives me a reciept for 120 bucks for various material, i totally understand.. its the small **** that bothers me.
lets change things around, you're a customer and you are charges 25 grand for some sort of home improvement Nd i give you a reciept for 30 bucks for something.. you are going to be pissed and rightly so. as a businessman, i would never do that. some contractors do and they and they seem to always be the ones that complain how slow things are and how tough it is out there.. no, its because they arent good businessmen. thats my thoughts..sorry if some dont agree but again, i am talking about small amounts here. all my other guys never ever mention small stuff, its this one guy.

Well, you obviously went on a rant here because paragraphs, punctuation and everything else went right out the window. So, you obviously feel very strongly about your position and at least seem to be, a little peeved that not a single responder agrees with you. But, I'll try one more time to try and get you to understand....

It doesn't matter if it's $20 or $120. An expense was incurred by your installer to finish your job that you have said you are making good money on. It doesn't matter WHAT the installer is making or has already made on the project. That's already been agreed to and not relevant in this equation.

Your installer is fulfilling his part of the equation by installing the job to your specifications at the mutually agreed to pricing structure. No where in your sub contractor agreement (you DO have one with him I assume) does it say "Sub Contractor is responsible to furnish materials at his own expense should they be needed and not supplied by the General Contractor. So, he is just being a good businessman and accounting for all of his expenses.

Now, as I see it.... you have three options.

1. Tell him to call you each time he is short of material and you agree to drop everything and get it to him PDQ.
2. Bump his per square price on shingles and siding an agreed upon amount - with the stipulation that he will need to provide miscellaneous materials once in a while.
3. 3. Just get over yourself and pay the man when he uses his own materials and supplies to finish one of your projects.

Sorry to be so abrupt, I don't mean to offend. But IMHO, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. The guy has out of pocket expenses on your job. It's not nickles and dimes. It's an expense incurred as part of the job PERIOD. Just pay him and be thankful he's there for you when you need him. Great subs are hard to find.

There are a lot bigger things to focus your efforts on.

Again.... just my $0.02, FWIW, IMHO, YMMV and all that.

 

[bconley]

A detailed scope of work and a purchase order for that work, nothing more and nothing less until a change order is agreed upon.
If you're supplying materials you can't expect him to pay for what you missed.
How would you feel if he was supplying materials and asked you to pay for the ridge vent he forgot?

 

[welterweight]

wrong David.. if he goes to the supplier to pick up extra i get a receipt, thats different even if its 20 bucks.. i am talking about doing a bit extra without leaving the site when he has some extra nails laying around in the van..if its 2 boxes of nails that the supplier forgot to send, then of course he gets paid..however, if he changes 2 pieces of plywood and its at the job site, give me a break or if he replaces one window sill. as i said, thats nickel and diming.. if the house is 25 square and there is 2 pieces of siding left over he gets paid for 25 sq, im not going to deduct the 2 pieces of siding.. that would be nickel and diming on my part and thats not how i operate so why should he.. i think i am going to do that next week and see how he likes it,nthen he and i can talk after he gains some perspective.

 

[hippie]

Say $32 once a week in extra materials, 32x 50 that's 1600$ he's giving you over a year. In other words are you asking him to do 1 or 2 jobs for free? Unless he's agreed to do any and everything involved for a set price he is in no way wrong to ask for this money. I don't care how much work someone is giving me, I'm not going to pay to work for someone. Nothing is unfair or wrong about him wanting to be paid, and if he is doing small jobs, $500- $2k range is what I gather from the op, that's not even nickel and dime, its a substantial amount.

 

[welterweight]

32 a job is not realistic.. my beef is one job may be some nails, another may be changing a sill.. or " we had to remove an awning and it took us over a half hour to put it back up"".. that kind of bs..
so how would you guys like your bosses to say they are deducting 20 bucks because you only used 3/4 of a roll of a aluminum and deducted 30 bucks because there is one piece of siding left over.. would you like that? no you wouldnt.

 

[CompleteW&D]

I understand what you are saying, but where do you split the hairs between a "couple" of nails and a couple of boxes of nails? Is it a single coil, two coils, a half box? If he uses a piece of two-by he has in his trailer to replace a rotted sill you missed. Is his time to measure, cut and install the thing not worth $20 to you? What kind of message are you really sending to him when you question these charges? That his stuff and time isn't worth as much as yours?

I dunno.... I think you are playing with fire here.

 

[CompleteW&D]

" we had to remove an awning and it took us over a half hour to put it back up"".. that kind of bs..

BS??? I pay my guys $75 to R/R and awning. I don't expect them to do it for free.

 

[hippie]

32 a job is not realistic.. my beef is one job may be some nails, another may be changing a sill.. or " we had to remove an awning and it took us over a half hour to put it back up"".. that kind of bs..
so how would you guys like your bosses to say they are deducting 20 bucks because you only used 3/4 of a roll of a aluminum and deducted 30 bucks because there is one piece of siding left over.. would you like that? no you wouldnt.

Was the question of his status ever answered? Either he is an employee or a sub, if he is an employee then pay him per hour and provide the material he needs. If he's a sub then he either takes care of everything and bills for it or he's providing labor only and you need to provide all material. If he's not being clear about who is responsible for what then he is also at fault. That needs to be cleared up before anything else.

As far as where the extra material came from, if it was left over from a job he did for you or an unrelated job is irrelevant. It is inventory and is one of his business expenses, he has it, has been hauling it around, it was paid for with money that otherwise been profit on the job it came from. You guys need to figure out the specifics of your relationship, agree on something, and don't make exceptions or deviate from it and these problems would not exist

 

[Ash@OTL]

It sounds to me like the guy is doing a great job. I would hate to be called over every little problem. A guy who takes the initiative to solve the problem without bothering me is a plus.

If the few dollars every job is that big a deal to you then tell the guy to kick rocks. Just add 1 more competitor who sounds like he has his s*it together.

BTW, I charge my customers any extra material and labor above and beyond the SOW. They understand that I dont work for free. Never had a problem.

 

[aptpupil]

pay him or find someone else.
next.

 

[Jaws]

32 a job is not realistic.. my beef is one job may be some nails, another may be changing a sill.. or " we had to remove an awning and it took us over a half hour to put it back up"".. that kind of bs..
so how would you guys like your bosses to say they are deducting 20 bucks because you only used 3/4 of a roll of a aluminum and deducted 30 bucks because there is one piece of siding left over.. would you like that? no you wouldnt.

I don't have a boss....:no:

 

[VAviaCo]

I don't have a boss....:no:

Which means you're single still.

 

[fourcornerhome]

I had a boss like this once. The one thing I learned from him was how not to be a boss

 

[Jaws]

Which means you're single still.

:laughing: I am married I guess I do have a boss.

 

[nlgutters]

i have a guy i use for roofing , he also does some siding as well. he is very good and i am happy with his work except one thing; he nickel and dimes me for everything.
example, the other day i payed him and he tells me he had to use a roll of his own ridge vent and a box of his nails.. now, i have other crews who wouldnt even mention this to me. i give this guy so much work and feel if he uses some of his own material ( within reason) why even bring it up to me. believe me, its not the money, its the nickel and diming.
if he gets a 30 sq siding job and has to replace a sheet of plywood he wants to be paid. if he changes a small amount of rotted window trim, he asks for 25 bucks.. i pay thks guy well and give him alot of work as i said so i feel little extra things should be par for the course. now i have a built up animosity towards the guy. i want to talk to him and tell him if he intends to be part of my crew, i dont want to hear about him using his own nails or having to use some of his own felt paper. remember, im not talking about alot of material.
am i wrong here?

I agree 100%. I have a sub like that right now...The guy will hold up a 30k job for 4 days then do it make 5k and then send another bill fro rehanging a pair of shutters and charge me $11 bucks.. Annoys the **** out of me

 

[summithomeinc]

My wife is always picking up pennies on the ground. I laugh at her ans she just says "pennies make dollars". Well nickels and dimes make dollars faster. Most all of the posters here are not employees. even those of us with a "Boss":laughing: We got a pretty good idea of how things work. Pay the guy and be glad he's not charging a trip to the lumber yard and back plus 30% mark up on materials.

 

[VinylHanger]

If the guy goes and grabs a couple nails to bang some T-111 down before siding, I wouldn't expect him to charge and I wouldn't either. If I had to replace a sheet or two and repair a rotted sill or stud I might. If I was the salesman I would expect to pay for it. It would already be in my quote.

Those are things an experienced salesman/installer can usually figure on ahead of time. I know where the trouble on a shake house usually is and figure on it. I know where the trouble on a roof might be and put a little extra in. Not hard stuff. Just put that little bit in and make the guy happy. If he doesn't need it, you keep it.

I've been that installer. I always hated it when I would be asked to do or fix something because the salesman didn't put it in the bid. I had an exceptional relationship with the salesmen and the owner, but it still bugged me. Sure, installing 50 feet of flashing doesn't take long, but it cuts into the time I would be making money slapping up vinyl. Especially when there was no way to miss it, but it got missed.

On the other hand, If he explained to me he totally blew a job, or came to me and asked if we could help the HO together, I would be more than willing to give on my end.

It always amazes me when someone says that a few minutes here, or an hour there, or a few dollars over there shouldn't matter, as long I don't have to give it away. If it shouldn't matter to him, why should it matter to you? Is your pocket any better than his for keeping the money?

If it really bugs you, go and find another guy who will just bypass all those problems and allow you to deal with it when the HO calls and complains after the job is done.. How much will that save you.