[bobcaygeonjon]

Hi.
I have not been on here for a few years so please forgive me.

I have been working on restoration projects for the past few years and I am a little rusty when it comes to blockwork but non the less it is me and my crew who have to price and build a double elevator shaft.

Basically we are using 8" block, fully grouted with rebar. I have sent an RFI for the specs on the rebar but for now I am assuming M15 at 16" centres vertical with horizontal every 4th course. we have a grout pump for the grouting.

My question is, how many blocks laid and grouted per day?
The crew are experienced with blockwork.
I was thinking 3 guys laying with 2 labourers 450 per day.

Thanks.

 

[JBM]

Do you have to pour as you go due to the horizontals?

 

[griz]

Read your specs carefully as to when & how to grout.

 

[heavyc]

Sounds odd? Lot of factors to consider. Can you stage from exterior. Re-bar horizontals every 4' or 6th course. Don't forget there will be extra horizontal reinforcing at headers for doors. 2 stories 2 doors. At the doors you will need double bond beam courses at each . Vertically 3 per corner plus your nominal spacing could be 32 or 24 doubt the 16 o.c. also 2 per side masonry opening/door. Will you be able to enclose/encase doors at time cmu's are placed? Important for additional advice and questions. Remember when you handle Re-bar your reducing production. Will the cmu be exposed speaking of the exterior of course? Much more information needed to calculate production. You said crew is experienced with cmu placement might ask the experienced guys you have?

 

[concretemasonry]

Low lift or high lift grouting?

Clean-outs?

As you using block made for efficient grouting. All codes allow the use of block made for partially reinforced masonry.

You are not grouting the cores without rebar are you?

 

[brickhook]

I've built a few elevator shafts, and I hate them. The one's I've built weren't large enough (wide) to scaffold, so many pieces, a lot of sawing, elevator track hdw to install in the block as we went, and steel door frames to install and grout!

It's hard to get any production on an elevator shaft, but maybe this one will be different.

 

[heavyc]

I frown on high lift. Low lift the way to go unless of course your building wally worlds or Lowes , Home depot or similar style shot gun jobs that want doors open customers in there spending money quickly. I've seen nothing but heart ache and money going down the drain doing high lift placement. You want to see a contractor get week in the knees applying the high lift placement? Mention thermal imaging.

 

[heavyc]

I've built a few elevator shafts, and I hate them. The one's I've built weren't large enough (wide) to scaffold, so many pieces, a lot of sawing, elevator track hdw to install in the block as we went, and steel door frames to install and grout!

It's hard to get any production on an elevator shaft, but maybe this one will be different.

I concur, and to add if your staging can only be accomplished from interior. All materials have to be handle twice as much.

 

[bobcaygeonjon]

Thank you.
Some very good points made here.
I had a drawing thrown at me on Friday that has the plan for the elevators and a section that just says "Core filled concrete block". That's it!
So I have a lot to think about and lots of questions to ask the Contractor on Monday.
We are already working on the job and have at least 2 weeks to resolve any issues. One thing for sure is that it will be low lift grout. I only ever did high lift once when I was an apprentice and that was scary enough to swear me off it forever.
Scaffold is going to be an issue.
I will let you know how I get on.
Thanks.

 

[heavyc]

Do you have to pour as you go due to the horizontals?

Doubt it that all falls in low lift guidelines. Any experienced/knowledgeable engineer or Q.C. will require 24 hour +or- for cure or initial set if you will. Grout as you go is generally accepted in special cases such as a hollow metal door frames that require t or strap ties making it impossible to grout frame fully with the specified anchor/tie in place. That's only frame itself not any cmu cells.

 

[heavyc]

You might also be required to place bond beam at floor level to anchor pour stop/angle. Look closely most do. I've only built 20 or more probably more. Just trying to keep it real. With all the active duty injured/handicapped military personnel these days the military is required to make all buildings handicap accessible. Where as we did only large/high stair wells now it's combinations or solely elevators. The new" older" buildings I've done are being retrofitted with service style elevators.

 

[pritch]

Often you'll see the elevator guy's spec say to leave the R/O way big. Then the masons have to come back after the elevator install and fill around the doors. Double check that with the GC to see if you'll have to make a return trip to finish up.

 

[heavyc]

Often you'll see the elevator guy's spec say to leave the R/O way big. Then the masons have to come back after the elevator install and fill around the doors. Double check that with the GC to see if you'll have to make a return trip to finish up.

I think if you read my first post to this thread? The question has been asked. JDK. All I have done are and it's a huge PIA. I believe this gentleman is north of the border not sure if their methods and means are the same. Although there are a few tricks of the trade I've learned to still meet the codes and structural requirements that make the pain more bearable. But it's hard to put so much information out there free of charge? Again JDK .

 

[Rockmonster]

But to answer the initial question.....I would probably be a bit more conservative..... you're figuring 450/day with that crew......I'd probably be very happy with that count on a shaft........the one thing that can work in your favor is some fast guys......and on elevator shafts, that may be the only thing working in your favor.....

 

[JD3lta]

Time flies, years ago I was on an elevator job and I think I was the only laborer but everyone put in effort for it.(4 Masons) Quick summary it was cut in basement and dug, we put in the rebar framework and a truck pumped it with extensions. It was block like basement-3floors and roof(5total). All the block was staged by hand and we cut block for rebar and used the ladder looking rebar too. I think it was 4 foot core fill lifts. All the mud was carried by buckets, big mixer for big batches, portland filled. Yeah I somehow enjoyed that job but it was a tough one the elevator. Make sure to get pictures that'd be cool.