[tipitop]

Obviously 2 questions in thread, do not want saturate forum.
Was recently working like sub for sub trimmer of one of biggest TC home builder. Sub didn't know how to calculate spacing of balusters and if someone come in house can see right away that last baluster is to close. I know calculate it. Went to home builder and asked him would they pay me 100$ around just to calculate spacing for balusters at landing and fly of stairs. Never hear from them, even I left phone nr. How is a home builder that is almost 100 years in business ok with it where I, guy with rusty truck and bunch of tools, do not allow it to myself. Would any other math in framing or trim bring some money for me without doing hand on work? Edit. It happen by chance that home builder heard about me already in 2003 when I was building roof framing for townhouses build at same development by other home builder. Even that reference didn't help.

Second question I have not idea how to bid complicated framing. I was recently asked by home owner to frame roof with cathedral ceiling. It is house in L shape. Someone would do demo of one line of L I suppose to frame roof and than cathedral ceiling under it. I say yeah for 65$/hour but after thinking of it decided to not take it as is better for me trimming somewhere for 50$ hour. Some general contractor show up and bid for everything, demo, frame etc for around 15K where if owner would go my route would cost him for demo by someone else and my frame 7k. I know because my very old customer is dealing with this customer that need roof framing. Obviously I do not want undercut bros in business just do not know how properly bid it. Any way who in normal mind would fight complicated roof framing if can trim somewhere for almost same money.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Second question first:

I wouldn’t hire a sub who quotes me an hourly rate.

You want to work by the hour, you’re my employee. You don’t perform to expectations, you’re gone. Period.

First question: Kind of like the above.

I would not hire a ”consultant” for my crew

If you can do the work, I hire you to do the work. That’s just a weird situation that I, as an employer, would not involve myself in.

And I judge books their covers. If you show up in a beat up truck, with rusty tools, sloppy organization, and dirty clothes, I’ll pass on hiring you.

Maybe not every one, but that’s how I do business.

 

[VinylHanger]

There's an app for the balusters. Anyone who can't get them within 1/16th of an inch isn't trying.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[Pounder]

Obviously 2 questions in thread, do not want saturate forum.
Was recently working like sub for sub trimmer of one of biggest TC home builder. Sub didn't know how to calculate spacing of balusters and if someone come in house can see right away that last baluster is to close. I know calculate it. Went to home builder and asked him would they pay me 100$ around just to calculate spacing for balusters at landing and fly of stairs. Never hear from them, even I left phone nr. How is a home builder that is almost 100 years in business ok with it where I, guy with rusty truck and bunch of tools, do not allow it to myself. Would any other math in framing or trim bring some money for me without doing hand on work? Edit. It happen by chance that home builder heard about me already in 2003 when I was building roof framing for townhouses build at same development by other home builder. Even that reference didn't help.

Second question I have not idea how to bid complicated framing. I was recently asked by home owner to frame roof with cathedral ceiling. It is house in L shape. Someone would do demo of one line of L I suppose to frame roof and than cathedral ceiling under it. I say yeah for 65$/hour but after thinking of it decided to not take it as is better for me trimming somewhere for 50$ hour. Some general contractor show up and bid for everything, demo, frame etc for around 15K where if owner would go my route would cost him for demo by someone else and my frame 7k. I know because my very old customer is dealing with this customer that need roof framing. Obviously I do not want undercut bros in business just do not know how properly bid it. Any way who in normal mind would fight complicated roof framing if can trim somewhere for almost same money.

Q1. The GC isn't going to hire a sub when he's already paying another sub for the same work. Done right or wrong isn't your concern unless you're writing the check.

Q2. If you don't know how to bid the work don't do the job. The reality is you're going to get stung a few times figuring it out. Along with that, your price is your price, it's what you want for the job, not what someone else is charging.

 

[Djea3]

Second question first:
I wouldn’t hire a sub who quotes me an hourly rate.

That depends and you know it. If the sub or the contractor has a good reputation then you will most likely save BIG BUCKS with a T&M approach. Otherwise as a sub I need to charge you my "what if" and ""unknown condition" as well as "profit and overhead". Either that or have a contract that holds YOU to change orders and change order fees and shut downs.
You are being short sighted for sure.

I worked as a GC in a townhome subdivision in Dallas. I kept myself and 4 men working and made BANG BUCK, all at lower rates than any other contractor and without a SINGLE BID OF ANY KIND. I did ONE JOB at T&M to begin with. The customer had identical work and material to an exactly identical unit. When word got out that I was thousands UNDER the other GC I could not keep up with the work.

Did I leave $$$ on the table. Most likely, my customers got great deals. What I got was an understanding that if anything was wrong it had to be fixed at the same T&M. This meant major structural repairs, replacement of cantilevered structure, adding structure, replacing structural members due to wood destroying organisms, mold work, etc. I only had to take a pic and send it and let them ...no bid, no approval, just go for it. I made bang buck and customers didn't pay the additional 20-40% that bidding allows.

the best part for me as a GC, my reputation locally and never having to leave that 500 unit subdivision for a job.

 

[reggi]

That depends and you know it. If the sub or the contractor has a good reputation then you will most likely save BIG BUCKS with a T&M approach. Otherwise as a sub I need to charge you my "what if" and ""unknown condition" as well as "profit and overhead". Either that or have a contract that holds YOU to change orders and change order fees and shut downs.
You are being short sighted for sure.

I worked as a GC in a townhome subdivision in Dallas. I kept myself and 4 men working and made BANG BUCK, all at lower rates than any other contractor and without a SINGLE BID OF ANY KIND. I did ONE JOB at T&M to begin with. The customer had identical work and material to an exactly identical unit. When word got out that I was thousands UNDER the other GC I could not keep up with the work.

Did I leave $$$ on the table. Most likely, my customers got great deals. What I got was an understanding that if anything was wrong it had to be fixed at the same T&M. This meant major structural repairs, replacement of cantilevered structure, adding structure, replacing structural members due to wood destroying organisms, mold work, etc. I only had to take a pic and send it and let them ...no bid, no approval, just go for it. I made bang buck and customers didn't pay the additional 20-40% that bidding allows.

the best part for me as a GC, my reputation locally and never having to leave that 500 unit subdivision for a job.

If you think you made BANG BUCK with T&M, imagine if you, ya know, bid it for another 40%.

 

[Djea3]

If you think you made BANG BUCK with T&M, imagine if you, ya know, bid it for another 40%.

You and your ilk are part of the problem as to WHY the public does not trust contractors/auto repair and wants more control over bids and processes. How can you sleep at night even suggesting such? Selfish pricks act this way and talk this way. Not your fault, as you probably were never taught that risk/reward and other factors come into play in every business.

You need to understand. I was making plenty of money, not having to bid. I didn't waste one moment on B.S. and not getting bids. Not having to obtain change order. I was paid every Friday for all material and work or I didn't return (never happened). I had a maximum risk of 5 days plus materials unpaid at any given time. Most of the time materials were paid that night (major purchases or in excess to $1000). Every Friday the customer signed off on all work performed to spec with payment. They could NOT sue me easily. T&M I can walk at any time without an argument at all and no liability.

I have run jobs where my risk was many tens of thousands, even possibly hundred thousand or more. One project, my risk was in the MILLIONS at all times! When taking risk you ADD to the value. When reducing risk you can reduce the quote and still make BANG BUCK and never be without work or worried about non-payment, liens and suits.
You wanted me do work, there was a waiting list even when no one else was working.

Within a year there was pretty much no competition in the 500 unit complex. I had subs for many trades and would send them when I could...I billed the client and made my 20% in the middle on even small repairs. I still got them better deals than ABC plumbing, or XYZ Air would give. I only stopped because I live in Florida and my wife was tired of seeing me 4 to 5 days a month. And yes, I rented a room there monthly in a great Bachelor pad style place, paid round trip flights at will and still earned a lot more than necessary.

The biggest difference, when I show up in that neighborhood even 8 years later, everyone shows respect and loves to see me and contact me. In fact I get invitations for BBQ, or even to use the pool and facilities etc, whenever I am in TX. They all know honesty and integrity and would refer me or hire me in a second! I won't say we are friends, but I am welcome there by any of them at any time.

 

[reggi]

Who is my ilk? Contractors who got into the business to get ahead?

You never stopped to wonder why your customers were willing to wait for you when other guys weren't even working?

You're cheap. Low dollar Danny, my friend.

That doesn't make you more honest than me.

 

[Warren]

Never heard the term "bang bucks" before. What are we talking here?

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I think he’s Cubano

I believe English is a second language.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

That depends and you know it. If the sub or the contractor has a good reputation then you will most likely save BIG BUCKS with a T&M approach. Otherwise as a sub I need to charge you my "what if" and ""unknown condition" as well as "profit and overhead". Either that or have a contract that holds YOU to change orders and change order fees and shut downs.
You are being short sighted for sure.

I worked as a GC in a townhome subdivision in Dallas. I kept myself and 4 men working and made BANG BUCK, all at lower rates than any other contractor and without a SINGLE BID OF ANY KIND. I did ONE JOB at T&M to begin with. The customer had identical work and material to an exactly identical unit. When word got out that I was thousands UNDER the other GC I could not keep up with the work.

Did I leave $$$ on the table. Most likely, my customers got great deals. What I got was an understanding that if anything was wrong it had to be fixed at the same T&M. This meant major structural repairs, replacement of cantilevered structure, adding structure, replacing structural members due to wood destroying organisms, mold work, etc. I only had to take a pic and send it and let them ...no bid, no approval, just go for it. I made bang buck and customers didn't pay the additional 20-40% that bidding allows.

the best part for me as a GC, my reputation locally and never having to leave that 500 unit subdivision for a job.

No actually it doesn’t depend.

You know nothing about my area, my business practices, or how I run my operation.

Im a GC and and EC. What I sub out is subbed to a licensed, bonded, insured, honest-to-goodness sub contractor.

I don’t hire a dude to come in and do some framing for me, and pay him by the hour. Not my gig. I frame in house, and if I pay a guy by the hour, he’s an employee. Other people do it differently and that’s fine.

Im sure a situation could arise where I would have to do a T&M contract with a sub. Hasn’t come up yet.

All I was saying is I don’t work the way Tipi does. He works in a grey area between employee and sub contractor, and has constant issues that he posts about here. I would not hire him on that basis, period.

I would make him give me a lump sum bid for a clearly defined scope of work, or I would put him on my payroll. That’s my decision and that’s how I operate.


And you scab 1099ers come on here all the time talking about how contractors are crooks, and how much money you make working by the hour. I couldn’t give a rats ass to be perfectly honest with you. You do you and I’ll do as I please

Assuming you’re even a contractor at all, and not HO

 

[avenge]

You and your ilk are part of the problem as to WHY the public does not trust contractors/auto repair and wants more control over bids and processes. How can you sleep at night even suggesting such? Selfish pricks act this way and talk this way. Not your fault, as you probably were never taught that risk/reward and other factors come into play in every business.

You need to understand. I was making plenty of money, not having to bid. I didn't waste one moment on B.S. and not getting bids. Not having to obtain change order. I was paid every Friday for all material and work or I didn't return (never happened). I had a maximum risk of 5 days plus materials unpaid at any given time. Most of the time materials were paid that night (major purchases or in excess to $1000). Every Friday the customer signed off on all work performed to spec with payment. They could NOT sue me easily. T&M I can walk at any time without an argument at all and no liability.

I have run jobs where my risk was many tens of thousands, even possibly hundred thousand or more. One project, my risk was in the MILLIONS at all times! When taking risk you ADD to the value. When reducing risk you can reduce the quote and still make BANG BUCK and never be without work or worried about non-payment, liens and suits.
You wanted me do work, there was a waiting list even when no one else was working.

Within a year there was pretty much no competition in the 500 unit complex. I had subs for many trades and would send them when I could...I billed the client and made my 20% in the middle on even small repairs. I still got them better deals than ABC plumbing, or XYZ Air would give. I only stopped because I live in Florida and my wife was tired of seeing me 4 to 5 days a month. And yes, I rented a room there monthly in a great Bachelor pad style place, paid round trip flights at will and still earned a lot more than necessary.

The biggest difference, when I show up in that neighborhood even 8 years later, everyone shows respect and loves to see me and contact me. In fact I get invitations for BBQ, or even to use the pool and facilities etc, whenever I am in TX. They all know honesty and integrity and would refer me or hire me in a second! I won't say we are friends, but I am welcome there by any of them at any time.

Stop spouting off your BS in every thread.

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

In fact I get invitations for BBQ, or even to use the pool and facilities etc,

Wow, just wow. Now that is some perks. Are you here legally


Mike

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

I’ve never known anybody that made money or in your words “ bang buck “ on apartments. Or sorry “ condos “. What are they paying for trim now .40 cents


Mike