It was a little like slave labor, but I'm glad I got the opportunity to do it for awhile, it opened my eyes.

And man, you are ON a schedule with this stuff...3 days start to finish (and the 3 days are when the builder says)...painters are all over the place the next a.m....if they haven't tried to sneak in on the 3rd day of trimming...

 

...and there were only a couple of rooms in each house that I would do totally by myself. The majority of the house was measured and cut by my guy.

I would do the pediments and a couple of the simple rooms of crown, while he was getting me set up for installation...rock and roll baby :laughing:

ah, the good ole days...ok not that old

 

production work gets old quick. I did it for 7 yrs straight day in day out.
same **** everyday, over and over.
like Jay, our crew made it more interesting by seeing what we could do in a short amount of time without sacrificing quality.
Boss would tell us monday how many houses we had for the week and offer a bonus if it was done.
game on after that,
alot times we were out of work for a day or two cause we got done to soon, but he made sure the bonus made up for it.

 

And I was just taking overflow work for the builders main trim company that subbed the overflow to me...so he's taking 20% off the top of what the builder was paying...for production work :shutup: ...you better learn to move quick very quickly to make anything on that set-up :laughing:.

This guy was probably like your boss Mike, he had a couple of 3-man crews, one that he worked on and they knocked out the homes in one long day, 12-13 hours...so they would do 4-5 houses a week in 4 different subdivisions at that time.

He was a good guy to work with though, never once had any money problem. I would average $35-$40 hr. which helped pay the bills. Not enough to run a business on, but for work handed to me as fill-in work, can't complain at all. :no:

 

was[/i] fun.

I'd bet you made some pretty decent money though I know you earned every penny .
I probably don't want to know how much more you make doing remodels . :no:
It paid for my land and allowed me to build my own house .

Not to be prejudiced but when I was going full bore at trim 1995 to 05 it was almost all American citizens as subs till about 02 around here . I started to like alot less when that changed .

Reading the other posters was interesting . I thought almost every carpenter alive did a stint framing or triming tract style housing .
Apparently not .

 

Money wasn't bad at all, especially in light of being a sub of a sub, on production work, and it helped me fill my schedule.

 

That IS a killer day. God, I hate paint prep, and painting. That would take me 2 days alone, with most of the paint on me. :laughing:

 

J F,

As I said before I do not believe you can consistently run the crown (12’ x 12’ room 9’ ceilings) in 15 minutes and make it look good. You claim that is your fastest time. If so than as I said my hat is off to you. :clap: I do believe you and another person could run the crown under ideal situations in a room that size in 25-30 minutes. Been there done that. I myself feel it is better to work steady than fast. I’ve seen a lot of guys start the day with great production rates only to burn out by lunch.

We also disagreed on the location of the copes. Again I am going to tell you, you are supposed to locate the coped cuts so they flow with the natural line of sight and will not be viewed at right angles when entering or leaving the room. The purpose of the coping cut is to compensate for out of square corners and to control how the joint is viewed, not to hold the adjoining piece of trim in place. For the purpose of production, double copes are best avoided when ever possible. This as I said before is textbook. Double copes are definitely best avoided by a DIYer.

The pediments: maybe you are just that good. I could not fabricate all the pieces on site for both openings and install them in 1 ½ hrs. I don’t know anybody that could set up the equipment, rip all the pieces, and shape them. Then measures, cuts, and installs all the pieces for both sides of both doors in that time.

As far as doors and production work go I can install a pre-hung door properly shimmed in about 4 to 5 minutes (up to 36”) using a cordless trim gun. If I want it to look really pretty with perfect clearances (1/16 hinge/ 1/8 head/ 1/8 strike) and the bottom scribed to the floor I average 15 minutes (that’s with the hinge side hand nailed w/ 8 penny finish nails 2” above/ below hinges and at the strike). I don’t remember any conversation about door hanging between you and I but there are my averages for your consideration. If you can hang them any faster than that then you probably forgot to shim and nail them.

As I acknowledged in the other thread I am a highly suspicious person. I have heard a lot of guys claim speed and accuracy and most of them had neither. I have also been contracted by builders to clean up behind production guys. I’ve seen doors that where so out of whack you couldn’t close them with a 10# sledge and a tub of Vaseline. I’ve seen trim (base, crown, and shoe) with ¼” gaps in the joints or more. I’m sure the crew who did that where running under 15 minutes. Please note; I’m not accusing you of doing that kind of shoddy work I’m just sharing some of my experiences. That said you probably understand now why I am skeptical of people making such claims.

 

Glad you made it over. As I stated in the other thread, my problem with both you and sky was the disbelief (and the way it was put) in what I personally told you I had done.

That is what was done wrong in my opinion. I don't care how much you don't believe everything you read on the net (you would be foolish to do so), but when I am personally going to be called out on how quickly/efficiently how I can do something that I stated I have done, on a public forum I am going to reply.

Simple disagreement is no problem, happens all the time, but I think if you re-read some of your guys posts regarding what I shared as having personally done, it called for a response...which I felt I handled quite well.

Jay

 

Then Finley added one post and had it shut down :laughing:. It was on it's way any way, but Mike's post was the only one of however many, that had some words blanked out by the mods. :laughing: He put it very succinctly, as he always does.

 

Then Finley added one post and had it shut down :laughing:. It was on it's way any way, but Mike's post was the only one of however many, that had some words blanked out by the mods. :laughing: He put it very succinctly, as he always does.

Glad to have been of service. :cheesygri

 

Ari, I didn't remember you being a poster here, just went and read some of your other stuff, but did this thread have anything to do with the arguing over on diy?

http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/am-i-crazy-61686/index2/#post722964

Specifically my post #13? Just curious if you were a little peeved (possible). I see you did come to realize why I said that. :w00t:

 

We'll have to call you "the closer" :laughing: (not that you don't already have that one wrapped up for your business).

 

I just can't see any room getting done in 15 minutes unless everything beforehand was done to perfection (not likely). Unless you're just gonna hide your mistakes behind paint and caulk.:whistling

Of course I never worked with pine or poplar. I have a tendency to work with wood a tad bit more dense.

 

I just can't see any room getting done in 15 minutes unless everything beforehand was done to perfection (not likely). Unless you're just gonna hide your mistakes behind paint and caulk.:whistling

Of course I never worked with pine or poplar. I have a tendency to work with wood a tad bit more dense.

Not in cheapo mcmansions :no:

No this was all fjwp, 3 5/8 el crappo. And don't start that caulk crap with me.

No, this is set-up like in my original post.

 

After an hour of setting up, I think 4 walls can be crowned in 15 minutes. Get all 4 measurements, scribe a few gauge lines, cut 2 pieces opposing each other square to square, cut the adjacent pieces long to long, plus a light 1/8, cope both pieces. Set square pieces with one nail in the center of the piece and one nail a couple feet from each end. Snap in the coped pieces, make the adjustments to get the cope tight and gun 'er up. Not a pace to be kept all day long, but to prove a point, I think it could happen.:thumbsup:

 

And I normally didn't have to use a nail in the corner (only 12' pieces). After the 2 flat pieces are installed (leaving the last 2 feet on both ends un-nailed), you can have your ladder in one corner and set the far corner cope in place, while working on the corner you're at, then go to the far corner....wash, rinse, repeat on the other side.

And no, like I've stated several times, NOT a pace you can keep up for long, but made some of the repetition a little more fun...god forbid.

 

Maybe 15 minutes is an exaggeration. Maybe in reality it's more like 16 minutes and 12 seconds.

I think the point was that it doesn't have to take 3 hours to hang 4 pieces of crown. Guys proficient at what they do and used to production can get Get Er Done!

Taking longer doesn't necessarily mean the end results are going to be better. You either know what you are doing or you don't, then it's a matter of learning how to work faster by being efficient.

 

No, no exaggeration (using my watch/stopwatch...15 mins...nice tight joints. I will admit that I could never get it much under 15 mins, and more often than not it was 16-18 if I had to bugger around with anything, but it made a mundane task a challenge.

 

Well, I must of been mistaken when you said you cut it too. My idea of cutting your own moldings involves this stuff...

 

yeah, not much use for that on the 3 5/8" crown the builder supplies :whistling

 

how many feet a minute can you spit out with those bad boys, say on some oak, out of curiosity?

 

I've never tried oak but may have to with the exotics business so slow right now but 25 feet per minute.

 

I dont understand why some think it is so hard to install 1 room of crown in 15 minutes.
it takes more time measuring and walking to the saw then it takes to cut and install.
I cope with a jigsaw so coping takes all of 4 seconds per piece.

 

Oh and I forgot to mention, I grow the trees to make the crown in that time as well :whistling (how's that cdat? :laughing

 

crown royal -- not so fast anymore

 

:laughing:

 

So 48 feet of crown at $5 per ft in 15 minutes?
Then what? You go home since you've made a days pay?

 

hmmm, there's a certain part you've missed here...I'll give you a hint...it's a BIG part of the equation....see if you can figure it out.

 

I'd like to see a national competition (maybe jlc live) where they did just this...one 12 x 12 room like with a set-up like I posted.

I'll bet there would be some guys doing it in 10 minutes, maybe less.

 

Do you use a collins coping foot mike? I've had one for about 6 years, on a jigsaw, just collecting dust. Tried it once and put it away until I had more time to goof around with it....:whistling

I know some guys can fly with those things.

 

Do you use a collins coping foot mike? I've had one for about 6 years, on a jigsaw, just collecting dust. Tried it once and put it away until I had more time to goof around with it....:whistling

I know some guys can fly with those things.

never used a coping foot, It would just get in my way.
could almost do it with my eyes closed now. muscle memory takes control and I dont think about it anymore

 

I only spent a few years doing production trim, mostly under a sub. We (two of us) were banging out 1200 sq ft condo units (for example) in a day and a half. Trim, doors, luon but we were ahead of the pack on quality. He made money, I didnt. And we werent hustling that hard either.

I have a healthy hatred for production work now (willing to take any necessary pay cut too). But it comes out in the wash I guess. In tile for example. I'm expensive but some HO's are willing to shell it out, I dont do slop. Same with trim but tile seems easy picking. I'm not big on moving fast these days. Perfect I can handle, speed sucks.

 

I'm pretty much the same, but was glad to get the experience back then. I don't see much production trim work coming back this way for awhile, at least not anywhere near what it was, just won't need that many new homes for a looong time. :no: