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Shingler extraordinaire
Sales Estimator/ Project Manager
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok...here is the situation....a friend of mine I help out OCCASIONALLY, had me go look at a roof he did at his cousins house. This guy is my age (34) and has been roofing longer than me. He is fairly quick putting shingles down in the field, but is the guy that gives gunned down shingles a bad name. His flashing and detail work are atrocious. Like real bad. He reuses the worst counterflashing as a general practice. It honestly irks th chit out of me that he is a liscensed contractor and I am not able to obtain a liscense simply due to a credit score.

Anway....I spent an hour the other day looking at his cousins roof and I cant figure out where the leak is....he has already replaced the step with new on the side the dormer is leaking. I found that there are 2 base/aprons on the front dormer wall.

Now he wants me to pull all the siding, step, and shingles ...run I&W 18" up the wall, and put the old brittle siding back on. I do not want to be married to this thing. Nor do I want to him him whine when it costs him $700-$1000 plus the materials when I am done... i helped him shingle his house last week and when he asked what he owed me (10/12, 2 walls, 3 valleys, roughly 5-6 sq, and about 60 feet of cap) i told him $100 happy birthday! (It was his birthday) he said you're overcharging me! I mean he paid, shook my hand, and profusely thanked me for coming on that mornings notice...but still.

I worked for his old man who is no longer with us unfortunatley. So this is hard for me to tactfully decline and tell him somehow that his detail work sucks and fast doesn't equall good!

Any suggestions? I think all the dormer siding needs replaced and windows re wrapped, and the apron flashing on the front wall. I did think of offering to show him how to properly flash corners etc but I think he's gonna be salty about it. What would you do?

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The chimney kills me.....that is extra effort in his book
 

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Show him pictures of your work. Over a couple beers or something one weekend. Make sure to include lots of pictures of wall flashings before and after basically show him pictures of everything he does wrong. Don't be braggy or preachy. Just mention hey check out this chimney flashing I did a while back. See what he says from there. It might come up he wants you to help him.


Or just be blunt and charge him 500 and hour to show him how to do it properly.
 

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water re-locater
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7,511 Posts
I'd just be brutally honest and tell him the product hes putting out there will eventually come back to haunt him...this time its his cousin...we all know about the pita homeowner that can take years off your life from the aggravation...
 

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Shingler extraordinaire
Sales Estimator/ Project Manager
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9,883 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No....I'm not even complaining. Was wondering if anyone has been in this spot before...be dumb to think someone hasn't. ..and was looking for ideas on how to tactfully tell someone their work sucks without ruining a friendship
 

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Champion Thread Derailer
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I would guess that either 1) he isn't aware of proper methods in striving for quality work, or 2) he isn't interested in striving for quality work. It seems he would only benefit from you telling him the truth if option #1 was the case, as #2 would mean he might hear you out, but shrug it off (or flip you off, etc). My guess only.
 

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Shingler extraordinaire
Sales Estimator/ Project Manager
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I would guess that either 1) he isn't aware of proper methods in striving for quality work, or 2) he isn't interested in striving for quality work. It seems he would only benefit from you telling him the truth if option #1 was the case, as #2 would mean he might hear you out, but shrug it off (or flip you off, etc). My guess only.
Good call...I'd say he isnt aware of the methods and would benefit from being shown how. I think he honestly believes he is doing a good job....he might just flip me off though as his ego is gonna be bruised and he doesn not handle ego bruising well at all.
 

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Shingler extraordinaire
Sales Estimator/ Project Manager
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok...I just got off the phone with him....told him the flashing needs to be redone and the siding pulled the windows need re wrapped and taped.

I Said I'd pull the siding, install tyveck, replace the flashing that has not yet been redone, and redo the spots where the pitches come together for am hourly price and he could reside it. I will work the teachings and a couple details he could benefit from in, when I do the job.
 

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1,706 Posts
Ok...here is the situation....a friend of mine I help out OCCASIONALLY, had me go look at a roof he did at his cousins house. This guy is my age (34) and has been roofing longer than me. He is fairly quick putting shingles down in the field, but is the guy that gives gunned down shingles a bad name. His flashing and detail work are atrocious. Like real bad. He reuses the worst counterflashing as a general practice. It honestly irks th chit out of me that he is a liscensed contractor and I am not able to obtain a liscense simply due to a credit score.

Anway....I spent an hour the other day looking at his cousins roof and I cant figure out where the leak is....he has already replaced the step with new on the side the dormer is leaking. I found that there are 2 base/aprons on the front dormer wall.

Now he wants me to pull all the siding, step, and shingles ...run I&W 18" up the wall, and put the old brittle siding back on. I do not want to be married to this thing. Nor do I want to him him whine when it costs him $700-$1000 plus the materials when I am done... i helped him shingle his house last week and when he asked what he owed me (10/12, 2 walls, 3 valleys, roughly 5-6 sq, and about 60 feet of cap) i told him $100 happy birthday! (It was his birthday) he said you're overcharging me! I mean he paid, shook my hand, and profusely thanked me for coming on that mornings notice...but still.

I worked for his old man who is no longer with us unfortunatley. So this is hard for me to tactfully decline and tell him somehow that his detail work sucks and fast doesn't equall good!

Any suggestions? I think all the dormer siding needs replaced and windows re wrapped, and the apron flashing on the front wall. I did think of offering to show him how to properly flash corners etc but I think he's gonna be salty about it. What would you do?

The chimney kills me.....that is extra effort in his book
If hes your friend its easy..just say " damn yu suck"
 

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The Dude
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2,273 Posts
No J channel on vinyl siding at the roof to wall? Nothing sealing off the top of the counter flashing on the chimney? Plastic cement on a shingle roof??? Roll metal counter? Face nailing shingles at the corner like that??? I only ever face nail flashings - and when I do I squirt sealant UNDER the nail as well as sealing the head - with urethane, not friggin tar!

FWIW - I don't like vinyl siding at all, and the J's are one reason, especially at a roof to wall transition like that. You've got to nail low on the wall to install it - perforating the step. Seems flawed by design to me ...
 

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The Dude
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2,273 Posts
How does he expect that chimney not to leak? Water runs down brick, and behind the counter flashing - it's not doing anything. Without a bend at the top for the sealant, even sealing it won't last very long. - or a reglet ...
 

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Home Repairs
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291 Posts
Ok...I just got off the phone with him....told him the flashing needs to be redone and the siding pulled the windows need re wrapped and taped.

I Said I'd pull the siding, install tyveck, replace the flashing that has not yet been redone, and redo the spots where the pitches come together for am hourly price and he could reside it. I will work the teachings and a couple details he could benefit from in, when I do the job.

Has he ever learned how to step & counter flash chimneys? I did a lot of roofing back in my high school days. The boss showed me how to do it in 10 minutes.
 

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Capra Aegagrus
Remodeler
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25,202 Posts
Was wondering if anyone has been in this spot before...be dumb to think someone hasn't. ..and was looking for ideas on how to tactfully tell someone their work sucks without ruining a friendship
I never actually thought about it until seeing this thread, but I just realized that not a single one of my friends is a hack. Seriously.

Not to say I haven't had occasion to set one straight now and then when he just doesn't realize what he's doing (and vice versa). A real friend appreciates straight shooting. :thumbsup:
 
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