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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So my boss hired his little brother some 6 years ago (I've been with the company for 3 years), and the kid is an absolute joke. He's been doing windows for the entire 6 years he's worked here, and I'm constantly having to fix crap for him or make him fix it. He's not willing to learn even basic electrical, which I think we can agree it's pretty sad to be unable to cut a window down into a door cause there's a circuit in the way. He won't learn how to do plumbing other than gluing up some ABS for a drain. He SUCKS at trim work. If it's more complicated than a simple square window trim-out, he tried to get someone else to do it. If he messes up, he tries to get someone else to fix his mistake for him. He makes a horrific mess when he patches stucco or drywall.

To top it all off, I learned recently that he actually told a customer to shut up when they were complaining about his work.

I get that he's the boss's brother and that my boss doesn't want to cause strife within his family, but that being the case, he never should have hired his brother. The worst part of the whole thing is that he makes the same hourly rate as I do and my quality is ten times better, I'm capable of ten times more skills, and I'm more efficient than he is.

How do I get rid of this kid without my boss giving me the authority to or doing it himself?

We're trying to grow the company and build up our reputation as a quality, high end remodel company, and there's just no room for losers.
 

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So my boss hired his little brother some 6 years ago (I've been with the company for 3 years), and the kid is an absolute joke. He's been doing windows for the entire 6 years he's worked here, and I'm constantly having to fix crap for him or make him fix it. He's not willing to learn even basic electrical, which I think we can agree it's pretty sad to be unable to cut a window down into a door cause there's a circuit in the way. He won't learn how to do plumbing other than gluing up some ABS for a drain. He SUCKS at trim work. If it's more complicated than a simple square window trim-out, he tried to get someone else to do it. If he messes up, he tries to get someone else to fix his mistake for him. He makes a horrific mess when he patches stucco or drywall.

To top it all off, I learned recently that he actually told a customer to shut up when they were complaining about his work.

I get that he's the boss's brother and that my boss doesn't want to cause strife within his family, but that being the case, he never should have hired his brother. The worst part of the whole thing is that he makes the same hourly rate as I do and my quality is ten times better, I'm capable of ten times more skills, and I'm more efficient than he is.

How do I get rid of this kid without my boss giving me the authority to or doing it himself?

We're trying to grow the company and build up our reputation as a quality, high end remodel company, and there's just no room for losers.
I'd tread lightly, or you might end up on the outside looking in.

Working with family is either the best of things or the worst. Chances are your boss realizes his shortcomings, but working with family comes with a lot of baggage as you pointed out.

Be very careful with your attitude. While your work may be superior, he's been there longer and he's family. Your best bet is to sit back and let him hang himself.

Only if his work caused your own to suffer would I risk a direct confrontation over it.

My two cents.
 

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So my boss hired his little brother some 6 years ago (I've been with the company for 3 years), and the kid is an absolute joke. He's been doing windows for the entire 6 years he's worked here, and I'm constantly having to fix crap for him or make him fix it. He's not willing to learn even basic electrical, which I think we can agree it's pretty sad to be unable to cut a window down into a door cause there's a circuit in the way. He won't learn how to do plumbing other than gluing up some ABS for a drain. He SUCKS at trim work. If it's more complicated than a simple square window trim-out, he tried to get someone else to do it. If he messes up, he tries to get someone else to fix his mistake for him. He makes a horrific mess when he patches stucco or drywall.

To top it all off, I learned recently that he actually told a customer to shut up when they were complaining about his work.

I get that he's the boss's brother and that my boss doesn't want to cause strife within his family, but that being the case, he never should have hired his brother. The worst part of the whole thing is that he makes the same hourly rate as I do and my quality is ten times better, I'm capable of ten times more skills, and I'm more efficient than he is.

How do I get rid of this kid without my boss giving me the authority to or doing it himself?

We're trying to grow the company and build up our reputation as a quality, high end remodel company, and there's just no room for losers.
sad to say but maybe you're the loser in this equation. your boss is happy as pig in shat. his brother's telling customers to shut up. you're the only one trying to "grow the company and build up reputation", maybe you should just do that with YOUR company and YOUR reputation and not your retarded boss's :eek:
 

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Let the brothers work speak for it's self. Next time you give him a task make it a good one and leave it alone for the boss to see. When he ask's you who did that? Tell him. Then tell him you follow him around and fix things like that from him all the time. Let him know that he's really good at pushing a broom, most day's.:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Only if his work caused your own to suffer would I risk a direct confrontation over it.

My two cents.
I suppose I should have mentioned that this IS an issue. Boss doesn't want to hire any new help until we need it, so it's basically me and his brother being paired up on larger jobs (at least until this week, cause I'll be back in kitchens, THANK GOD! :thumbup:) There have been a number of jobs I've had to work with him on, and unfortunately he likes to do things however seems easiest at the time, then let someone else deal with it when he realizes he actually made the job harder. I give a game plan, I put it into action, it works flawlessly. Oh, but it was a little too complicated for his liking, so he did it differently, so now I have to compensate, costing time AND materials.

I suppose the real issue is that I'm simply too loyal to my boss. It's his idea to turn the business into a "high end remodeling company" instead of just doing window replacements and cookie cutter kitchen remodels. I'm just putting out my best effort to help him achieve that, for my benefit as well as his. If he makes more dough, so can I, or so I believe.

As for doing it with my OWN company, I'm really just waiting to get some personal financial issues straightened out before I fork out the $$ to go to a license prep class and actually go take the test. Plus, I'm not gonna have a whole lot of clientele once I start off, so I kinda still need a full time job to pay the bills while I wait for those calls to start rolling in.
 

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Blood is thicker than water. Even if he thinks his brother is a total tool he still might lose you before him. Best just to suck it up and let what will happen naturally happen other wise it might blow up in your face.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I coulda put this in my last post, but I have to hit 15 posts so I can post pics :laughing:

The dynamic between my boss an I is pretty substantial, which is why I want to help him turn his company into what he wants it to be. He trusts me a great deal, and he recognises the effort I put forth. We have a lot of the same ideas on things, and he has actually told me that he wishes his brother would quit. He knows his brother is a hack. In fact, I often criticize his brother right in front of him, and when is brother turns to him expecting him to have his back, he agrees with me. It's sad really.

Anyway, my aim is not necessarily to try to persuade my boss to fire him, but more to get him to quit. The kid is going to lose us our contract with Pella if he keeps going the way he's going, and that's half our business at the moment.

Do you guys think I'm wasting my time? I kinda have this vision in my head of turning things around and being able to put it on my resume. Maybe I'm just a dreamer?
 

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Boss's summer help, 'somemer not 4 sure

OK, I've just returned from a suppliers product showcase, food and "beverages" were complimentary...so MAYBE I've had one or two many...seltzers....and I've looked over this delimma you've decided to share with us...Oh, and not to mention I've delt with this before,.... Well, depending on your relationship with the boss, um....you'd better get some compromising pictures of him with a sheep in order to get away with this...maybe..
1) I "might" have tried food ...contamination?...tainting?...posioning just seems like such aharsh word....everytime I brought something "yummy" for lunch this fat ass would mooch something...I just made sure that it had something unsavory on the food item so that he was out ill for ...well ..sometimes a week or so. (I know... evil, sick, mean, twisted, ILLEGAL) but my boss thoght his sibling was F-in' around calling out for no good reason.
(I've also rubbed down his equipment liberally with poision ivy and sumac juice from the plant...just wear 2 pairs of gloves..., I actually got to pollute his cell phone a few times too....he was ..well, "quite" ALLERGIC.. :)
2) After the lack of attendance, it did cost me a few dollars to solve my problem, pull a few favors, sell your sister or your favorite hammer, ....U can and need to find him a better job working for someone else, more moolah, maybe better better bennies, hookers, whatever...maybe, if you think you might make the deal a bit more sweet, maybe with some bling $ from your own pocket to someone you know at that co. that might be willing to deal with the twit for 3 mos., 6 mos. .... whatever might give you the break or opportunity to fill his spot with a quality employee that would quell the brother's desire to fill the position with mr. waste-n'space.
3) Don't forget the photo op!!! .. with the sheep, or lots of "inflatable friends", or a hooker...or a Mr. Hooker....if you've gone this far, well, go for broke...and maybe a gentle ..encouraging... informational..."note" to him...(with a possible CC to the significant other, wife, mom, Parole Officer if his sudden change of career is not willfully accepted)....maybe ....possibly...regarding some unrealeased pics on the web might encourage him to look at MickieD's for work....
Sometimes work is dirty...and sometimes crawling in the dirt gets you to the otherside of the tunnel. Just continue mission, you want to work with the brother and keep going the route you are, YOU just need to decide with the state of the economy, or if you feel this strongly about working in THIS company, or the coffee rolls are that good, is worth what your willing to do....OK!!! My disclaimer: I don't believe I've violated any really.. um.. BIG laws...well, maybe one or two tiny small ones...'come on, I do live in NH, LIVE FREE OR DIE!!!!! Dude, U need to just decide if this is worth being a lil dirty, or...alot, or if you want to be squeaky clean and walk away. (you could also post his moronic adventures and lack of skill on youtube.....) I will tell you this though, if your boss is enlightened by your stellar realism and his brothers incompetence, when it really does come down to it, Blood is thicker than water. Your current boss will NEVER forget that YOU and your lack of babysitting skills were the reason he let his lil bro go...and he then became a crack addict and ate rats, roaches and frogs and robbed the Burger King for toilet paper....:censored:
PLEASE NOTE: Any information displayed, included , typed, implied or otherwise figurativly suggested in the above information might have been typed by someone who stole my password, again, or not, or by the government!!!!...or maybe even my cat...yes, my cat...he's just F-ed up.....really, give 'em some cat nip and he's done, wasted.....can't get a bit of logic or work out of him, I've tried to talk to him...really.......maybe...kinda...sort of.:innocent:...Sorry boys, nurse says it's time for my meds! gotta go back to the dark palce.....Oh, did I mention I have an opening for a crew member???? :) Seems the one dude might have got a better offer working at the gas-n-puke......
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
:blink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
One thing I've been trying to push on my boss is to cut his brother's hours when he screws up and doesn't own up to it and fix it. It's the one thing that will hurt is when he can't afford to go get his fast food for lunch cause he's not getting enough hours.

I don't know if the kid can be moulded, but if he's gotta stay, at the very least he needs to be held accountable for his own work. My recent discussions about this with my boss have resulted in simple "talks" which have no effect. I can't really tell the GC how to run his company.... but voicing my very strong objections to him allowing his brother to go unchecked seems to get the job done... sorta. At the very least, he does make him fix his mistakes *when I rant about them*. I just shouldn't have to. It's my name on the job too, I want the whole thing perfect, not just my half.
 

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He's not willing to learn even basic electrical, which I think we can agree it's pretty sad to be unable to cut a window down into a door cause there's a circuit in the way. He won't learn how to do plumbing other than gluing up some ABS for a drain.
How do I get rid of this kid without my boss giving me the authority to or doing it himself?
.
Wait, you're a carpenter but you do electrical AND plumbing? How the hell does that work?

Regarding your boss's brother: you are screwed. Blood is thicker than water, and the only thing you can do is to let the kid keep shooting himself in the foot - and costing your boss money - until he comes to his own realization that keeping his brother employed is more expensive than letting him go.

Any amount of complaining or criticism of his brother, by you, will only reflect poorly on you.
 

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When you said he does windows, does that mean installing them?

If so, point out that there are some problems with his work and you suggest he take a class to become certified and the company should pay the tuition for the 2 day class and pay while he is there.

This will politely point out a deficiency to your boss, who may have to foot the bill. Who knows - he may learn something and have more pride in his work and attitude.

Many builders will not have their employees install windows and sub that out to certified installers because of the common moisture and mold problems and having to get in the middle between the owners and the insurance companies.

I took the class and it was very good and interesting and you get a great manual to remind you to think or refer to. The two day class was about $600-$700. Of the 25 or 30 people, there were 2 of us that just took it to learn and get a diploma. The rest of the class was experienced window installers that got a real certification and they were all paid by their employer to take the class. It was held in a room at a local testing lab and sponsored the American Association of Manufacturers (AAM?) that includes all the window manufacturers, so the quirks for different brands are pointed out. Apparently, they are also tired of the problems for the 65% of the windows that are installed improperly.

It could be good way to get the problem to your boss and see if he is wiling to spend the money on his younger brother.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
When you said he does windows, does that mean installing them?

If so, point out that there are some problems with his work and you suggest he take a class to become certified and the company should pay the tuition for the 2 day class and pay while he is there.

This will politely point out a deficiency to your boss, who may have to foot the bill. Who knows - he may learn something and have more pride in his work and attitude.

Many builders will not have their employees install windows and sub that out to certified installers because of the common moisture and mold problems and having to get in the middle between the owners and the insurance companies.

I took the class and it was very good and interesting and you get a great manual to remind you to think or refer to. The two day class was about $600-$700. Of the 25 or 30 people, there were 2 of us that just took it to learn and get a diploma. The rest of the class was experienced window installers that got a real certification and they were all paid by their employer to take the class. It was held in a room at a local testing lab and sponsored the American Association of Manufacturers (AAM?) that includes all the window manufacturers, so the quirks for different brands are pointed out. Apparently, they are also tired of the problems for the 65% of the windows that are installed improperly.

It could be good way to get the problem to your boss and see if he is wiling to spend the money on his younger brother.
We basically have two "divisions" if you will in our company. We have the side that installs windows, and we have the side that remodels. For the most part, he works for the window installation side and I work for the remodel side. Depending how busy one side is compared to the other, we sometimes have to switch to balance the work load. The brother is (supposed to be) a professional window installer.

Among the issues I have to fix for the kid, though, are not just aesthetic. He often flashes the windows wrong, in many cases getting zero lap from new to old. His fix: caulk it. He caulks the stucco fin instead of the old window frame when doing retro-fits (yeah, we have to do retro fits sometimes :shutup:) not realizing that this can result in the caulk adhering only to the stucco, not the frame. He should understand that stucco is not waterproof and that sealing the window the way he does isn't sealing it at all.

As for what I said about my name being on the project, I just meant in terms of what my boss sees and what the customer sees. If the job isn't 100% perfect, that's going to reflect poorly on me as much as on the loser who messed up.
 
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Accidents happen....:whistling...:laughing:
Thats right.

Nobody moves, nobody gets hurt....

Let the kid shoot himself in the foot, than hang himself. No sense in trying to get involved, that is just leading straight into trouble.

On the good side, at least you got some good make-work projects, keeps ya busy. Because you could be like a lot of the other folks, and not have a job at all....

-Bill
 
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