How can a GC price a job until they know what the sub are going to charge?
I'd never work for a GC who thinks I'm going to change my price based on what they assumed.
How Do General Contractors Price Jobs?
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This is going to depend a lot on the projects we're talking about here and it sounds like mainly residential, so you're on the right track (you're already in essence doing what I'm about to detail with your floor subs sounds like) but need to expand your relationship with your subs to be able to incorporate their pricing into yours to speed your process along... there are a lot of givens within pricing for most trades (how do you think they come up with the price - they incorporate their business needs into it), and that can range from SF, CF & LF pricing that are inherent in a lot of trades (i.e. - framing, painting, flooring, trimwork, roofing, etc.) and per item things in other trades that don't change much unless something is out of the ordinary (i.e. - plumbing, electrical, disconnect/reconnects, windows, etc.)... there are always exceptions to the rule and site conditions what may warrant an actual visit for variations outside of the pricing structure you agree to with your subs for the standard items...
The easy sell to your trades on incorporating their pricing into yours, is you are not only bringing them the business, but doing all the legwork on the pricing, but it allows you to move forward and create a price list that will go along way in speeding up your process... that legwork BTW, should garner you better pricing as part of the trade-off as you are saving them travel time, gas, wear and tear, customer meeting time, putting together proposals, etc.
You like your time, so do they, and this way they get more of it without having to waste it either...
All they need to do is provide you with a spreadsheet once a year of their pricing for their standard items for you to incorporate (we've gone to every six months because of the flux of the industry)... anything out of the ordinary can usually be handled through a phone call, pic and/or video... they can make a decision if more is needed beyond that...
No, not just the pretty pictures
Consider a major basement finishing project with an existing fire suppression system, adding a bathroom, building a new bedroom, and one or two extra rooms (we had one of these come across recently).
On just a high level, you have to figure out the best ways to run plumbing, determine insulation requirements, check if the electric panel needs updating, confirm egress requirements for the new bedroom area, and what changes are needed to the fire sprinkler system?
Just that last one- are the existing heads in the right locations for the new rooms? When you finish the ceiling, will you need different heads to clear the finished ceiling? Is the system on a pump that will need upgrading for some reason? You can wild a$$ guess it and give the customer a range you think it is likely to land in, but you're probably gonna need a sprinkler guy to walk the basement with you and the initial concept layout to really put a fine point on what it's going to cost just for that portion. We anticipated needing to pay someone a couple hundred bucks to review and design the changes for us.
We threw together a rough ballpark on the cost of the project and gave the prospect a range we anticipated it all to cost. It was wider than we would have liked, but the sprinkler bit was totally unknown. If they wanted a total, firm price contract with all design decisions (tile, bathroom fixtures, and "non-choice" design like the sprinklers) done, we gave them a price to do that design work that would let us pay for any detailed work someone else would have to do for us, and cover our time making several trips to the home to meet people, as well as walk them through the fixture and tile choices, etc.
For another client that we've previously worked with, we charged them a chunk to design a three-story home extension. My main wheelhouse is kitchens and bathrooms, so my boss asked me to get the kitchen design done. I think I have about 20-30 hours of phone calls, reviewing emails, notes, feedback, and diagrams the client has given me for it, preparing layout/cabinet options and making renders in our software.
While my part is somewhat "pretty pictures", we talked a lot about how important the kitchen is to their lifestyle, how they entertain people, how they cook as a family and would like to move around the new space, etc. I probably could have put together a kitchen with 30-50% lower cabinet costs if we were just blindly dropping in what fits and makes sense to us. But then the client would have either been dissapointed in the end, or had sticker shock when we did full kitchen design later and added stuff.
Unless a homeowner is giving you a full set of plans with a design document and selection list, there's extra work to do putting their proposal together, so show them how you manage that process for them to realize their dream, and get paid for it. Ultimately, if you're getting paid to do all that, you'd be able to create urgency with the subs you're asking for bids (because the client is motivated enough to put down cash). You could, if needed, pay someone for their time to check out the project and do legwork of their own.
Consider a major basement finishing project with an existing fire suppression system, adding a bathroom, building a new bedroom, and one or two extra rooms (we had one of these come across recently).
On just a high level, you have to figure out the best ways to run plumbing, determine insulation requirements, check if the electric panel needs updating, confirm egress requirements for the new bedroom area, and what changes are needed to the fire sprinkler system?
Just that last one- are the existing heads in the right locations for the new rooms? When you finish the ceiling, will you need different heads to clear the finished ceiling? Is the system on a pump that will need upgrading for some reason? You can wild a$$ guess it and give the customer a range you think it is likely to land in, but you're probably gonna need a sprinkler guy to walk the basement with you and the initial concept layout to really put a fine point on what it's going to cost just for that portion. We anticipated needing to pay someone a couple hundred bucks to review and design the changes for us.
We threw together a rough ballpark on the cost of the project and gave the prospect a range we anticipated it all to cost. It was wider than we would have liked, but the sprinkler bit was totally unknown. If they wanted a total, firm price contract with all design decisions (tile, bathroom fixtures, and "non-choice" design like the sprinklers) done, we gave them a price to do that design work that would let us pay for any detailed work someone else would have to do for us, and cover our time making several trips to the home to meet people, as well as walk them through the fixture and tile choices, etc.
For another client that we've previously worked with, we charged them a chunk to design a three-story home extension. My main wheelhouse is kitchens and bathrooms, so my boss asked me to get the kitchen design done. I think I have about 20-30 hours of phone calls, reviewing emails, notes, feedback, and diagrams the client has given me for it, preparing layout/cabinet options and making renders in our software.
While my part is somewhat "pretty pictures", we talked a lot about how important the kitchen is to their lifestyle, how they entertain people, how they cook as a family and would like to move around the new space, etc. I probably could have put together a kitchen with 30-50% lower cabinet costs if we were just blindly dropping in what fits and makes sense to us. But then the client would have either been dissapointed in the end, or had sticker shock when we did full kitchen design later and added stuff.
Unless a homeowner is giving you a full set of plans with a design document and selection list, there's extra work to do putting their proposal together, so show them how you manage that process for them to realize their dream, and get paid for it. Ultimately, if you're getting paid to do all that, you'd be able to create urgency with the subs you're asking for bids (because the client is motivated enough to put down cash). You could, if needed, pay someone for their time to check out the project and do legwork of their own.
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