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Having done roofing for 24 years, {not that long in the scheme of things}...I'm wodering if the general state of roofing I see out there has ALWAYS been this bad, or is this a "recent" phenomenom? Just curious what guys who've worked their whole lives in this field think about where roofing has been or where it's going.

Is it really getting worse, or maybe over the years, as I've learned more, I've just been more aware of
"what's out there. " As we do a lot of corrections work, and fixing of leaks installed by others, we see the whole range of mistakes, screwups and misapplications of materials more than if we were just tearing off the whole roof....not paying much attention to what the details were of the previous installation.

It seems to me like it is getting worse out there.
 

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I believe things are getting worse...the perception of quality is changing. All of us everywhere has to settle for less and less all the time.
I suppose it has always been viewed as being good that it is done quickly....
As we all know that is not always the case.. nail guns I believe is one of the worst things to become part of construction/ roofing industry.

What realy bugs me is when I get a fast food burger that doesnt look like the one in the picture.
 

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To me, - - it's a combination. It's a greedy public wanting everything cheap, cheap, cheap, - - and greedy contractors that want to cheat, cheat, cheat, - - basically it boils down to people getting exactly what they pay for. I'm so glad to be 'past' the point of having to 'bid' or 'compete' on jobs, - - against losers or wanna-be's that skimp on all 'time-tested' construction methods.
 

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Although I do all phases of remodeling, - - my regular customers know to have me do their roofs, - - do you know there is no such thing as a roofer in my area who considers flashings part of the job? They think nothing of charging $3000 and up to do a roof, - - and when it leaks and it's determined they 'left' the same old leaky 50-year-old flashings, - - they're excuse is "no one asked for new flashings, that would have cost extra", - - Duhh!!! How the hell they sleep at night I'll never understand.
 

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I'm not a roofer (obviously) but I strolled into this thread and saw something that caught my attention. I personally think ALL the construction trades (maybe minus the ones that are highly specialized/technical, such as pipeguy's gig) are being trivialized by DIY mentality that is being perpetuated by the mass marketing done by big box stores.

My industry of painting /wallcovering has been suffering for years. My grandfather was a painter, and raised a family of 4 with his wages, and had a very comfortable retirement, and he was not union. This was from the day when it was honorable to be a tradesman. Nowadays, people think painter, the perception is drunk/loser/bottom of the food chain. How did this happen? Where did it come from? I know that roofers are usually considered the same way.

The wallcovering industry got greedy in the 80's and developed pre-pasted paer (for the DIY) and their labels have read 'Easy to Hang' for years too. They have effectively convinced the public that paperhanging is NOT a craft, and can be done by anybody. :rolleyes: Maybe that's why w/c has dropped from 90 billion in sales in '84 to less than 4 billion in '04.

If the public does not accept what we do as a craft, or trade that has to be learned/mastered over time, then they will continue to lowball and trivialize all we do.

Rant over, back to Frosted Flakes and F-Troop :cheesygri
 

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Stop your bitching boys. I once was a professional photographer - you want to know who has it the worst over us? Wedding photographers and portrait photographers - those guys are getting their asses handed to them year after year and it is only getting worse.

You think the construction industry is being effected by the DIY market?

How long has the photo industry been bombarded by the DIY market? Since 1930s with the Kodak Brownie! They sold it as the first DIY tool, just point and press the button! This has been going on for the last 75 years. Polaroid cameras anyone? Point and shoots? Now with digital - holy cow! How many of you guys are shooting and printing your own pictures on your computer now? That's scary! Think about that market for awhile - everybody has shot at least one awesome picture in their life and it embeds in your mind - why should I pay this guy to photograph (fill in the blank) I can take pretty good pictures, I have a digital camera and a computer and a printer!

The fact is that every mature industry faces exactly the same thing and always will, what you or I are facing is no different then what your grandfather faced in his industry, it's just the way it works.
 

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An 'overload' of bad contractors cause more problems than the do-it-yourselfer's, - - the DIY's have at least a direct motive for conscientiousness, - - whereas the contractors have nothing but a 'rip-and-run' attitude. The problem for ProWall is, - - painting and papering are probably some of the most 'tackled' DIY projects, - - so I can definitely see where it must be a tough business.
 

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I think that HGTV has been overlooked. Any of you ever watched this channel? Most of their so called 'pro's' churn out some of the most unbelievable crap and encourage homeowners to do the same.
This farce should be called to the mat.
 

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Teetorbilt said:
I think that HGTV has been overlooked. Any of you ever watched this channel? Most of their so called 'pro's' churn out some of the most unbelievable crap and encourage homeowners to do the same.
This farce should be called to the mat.
It's just too painful to even watch!! :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Checking back on this a few days later...It looks like many have the same thoughts I have.

To the guy who mentioned the flashings...how true it is. Most roofs getting redone around here get all the same old rusted bent-to-heck, leaking flashings reused. Have run accross many homeowners over the years who actually went through 2-3 reroofs in a row...with the exact same leaks occuring over and over. Even when installing some new metal, many "roofers" never seemed to bother learning how they're supposed to be tied-in with the shingles.

Flat roofs are some of the worst, with nearly non-existent flashing details, and covering up rotted decking or lumpy-multi-layered roofing, and no attention paid to whether the seams are actually adhered or fully sealed.

To the guy who used to be a professional photographer, you make a good point about how things can change, thereby affecting an industry, but what does one have when they take a bunch of lousy pictures? And what does one have with a lousy roof job? They both might look bad, while the bad roof has the potential to drain someone's pocket over a period of years as they fix ceilings, walls, carpets, flooring, paint, underlying framing and decking, etc.

I agree that there's not much respect given the trades anymore. I think it's a combination of everything mentioned above such as Shoddy installers doing something without bothering to learn HOW, Shysters looking to get in and out as many times as they can before their rep catches up to them, and not the least is the way our society has come to look down on the trades. This last one is partially a self-inflicted wound because so many in construction have lost the public's respect due to their crap work. The doityourself industry has played a part, however, I can't fault anyone for wanting to try their hand at doing their own work, especially in light of the current problems in ALL of construction.

Anyway, not to sound corny, even if it is, but I'm glad to see there are some who still care about their own work. If you stick to your own standards, rejecting the pressure to install junk, your good rep will only grow, insuring work in the long run.

And, to the guy who hates nail guns, I agree they can have their problems. Having hand-nailed all my roofs for the first 13 years, I know the differences and potential problems with the guns. I always keep a hammer next to me and require my guys to as well so we can pound the nails flush when we have to. And it does take learning how to use the gun properly so they don't blow through or fracture the fiberglass. But, it's such a huge difference in time, especially when having to compete on some scale with the shysters and slipshods that we simply have to use them. We spend hours and hours on every job doing things 95% of the other guys don't, so we just have to use them. If they didn't work, we wouldn't use them.
 

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have to agree with tom r 100%.the new roof 50 year old flashing left in place is the rule in our area. i would also add no ice shield(required by code) and hell no permit.the only chimney flashing these guys know about is a bucket of tar.
 

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roofstuff said:
It seems to me like it is getting worse out there.
What I see more and more is low balling by the bigger commercial outfits on residential work. I got to the point of asking prospective residential clients exactly who I was bidding against. If one of the 1/2 dozen roofing contractors on my 'Don't bid against list' popped up, then I'd politely turn them down. The problem is the 1/2 dozen contractors who I won't bid against go in with labour & materials only. No overhead and profit. Why? 2 reasons. Reason #1 is cash flow. Those residential jobs bring in the quick cash to help pay the bills while they wait on the money from the slow paying commercial/industrial work. Reason #2 is extra charges incurred during the reroof often are marked way up, to the point of robbery and a nice tidy profit at jobs end.


Best regards,

DE
 
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