[mikeydeuce]

Question and sorry if this has been answered before I am new on here.

I have a customer that is looking for new siding. He tells me this is the first winter in the home (Built in 1955 ). Currently he has aluminum siding with some type of cork behind it. He tells me the house is very very cold and is hard to keep warm.

He tells me that him and his wife want to first remove all old material. Then use Johns Manville foil faced sheathing (Taped) then Tyvek "ThermaWarp" and finally either regular vinyl or possibly insulated fullback siding.

My question. Is this overkill or what ? Any suggestions ? Regular vs fullback ? foil faced sheather vs regular ?

 

[welterweight]

you sound like you are the home owner,not the contractor.
if you had even a bit of experience with siding you would know the answer. why not take your contractor's advice and do what he say's?
if not,do the job on your own or high some sheap guy who will do the job for beer money.

 

[mikeydeuce]

FYI I am the contractor but yes I am new to the business. I dont think I know it all like alot of people in this field. That being said there are many products released every year that "Pros" know nothing about because it is out of there comfort level. If you are not up to date with how to install certain products or how they might react with others you can make costly mistakes. I dont just install products I am comfortable with or know about.

I have never installed fullback siding with thermawrap and a foil face foam board all together like this. I am concered that my customer can either
#1 save money and time
#2 might have a issue with air / moister.

If someone has a real answer for me I would appreciate it.

 

[enforcer]

i agree with welterweight,something seems fishy. how could you not know something like that?
no,it would not be overkill.

 

[Tom Struble]

air moister? i don't know, but if his house is that cold add more attic insulation first,then windows and doors

that's where the majority of heat loss is

wanna save him time and money?tell him to invest in having an energy auditing firm come in and tell him exactly what he needs,unfortunately maybe for you it probably won't be a siding job

 

[mikeydeuce]

Thank you Tomstruble

I have an insulation guy coming this saturday to do the blown in celouse, Its going to work out to be R-38 ( 10 inches at 3.8 per inch) which should help alot. The windows are 5 years old and one door does need to be replaced.

Thank you again for giving me a straight answer. These guys should quit there jobs and try to be detectives. If you go through the forums on this site there are debates all over about this issue, House wrap with or without sheathing.

 

[Tom Struble]

no prob mikey 2:thumbsup:

the thing with the building science stuff is its hard to get 2 guys to agree about the same thing,keep searching the forums and read and learn all you can

 

[oldfrt]

One of my clients emailed the siding manufacturer for their input on this.
Their response was to apply the high-R,tape the joints and seal the bottom to keep air infiltration from getting behind the insulation.
If tape isn't used,then house wrap over the insulation and seal.

 

[DavidC]

Research your question @ www.buildingscience.com. My main concern would be multiple moisture barriers. The mentioned website will list several wall assemblies with explanations regarding how they work or don't.

Good Luck
Dave

 

[CharlesD]

I've installed fanfold insulation board, all taped seams, then Tyvek over that. Then installed insulated siding over them.
There are those on here who say this is wrong, or that the tyvek should go on first, but I was instructed to do it that way from the Tyvek people and it worked for me. Amacore and tyvek breaths plus keep water off the walls if it's put on right. The foam backed siding just makes things look a lot neater with straighter walls. I never consided it to be of any insulation value but back in the years I sold a lot of insulated aluminum that homeowners swore helped their heating cost. In fact I had it on my house.

 

[CharlesD]

Silverline windows

This may have been discussed but I just read tonight on my son's webpage that Anderson bought Silverline windows out.
Are they still making the silverlines?
I know this happened a couple years ago but I don't keep up with things now since I'm not involved in the business now..
He sold Alside but when they went with Window world, he swithed moslty to Silverlines and was very pleased with them.

 

[IHI]

I'm too lazy to search, but a few issues ago JLC had an article about a company super insulating a home and it was VERY intense, but the jist was they used 2" foam board over the old house, taped, then installed building wrap over that and taped as well. But they made sure to try and stop every entry point any air could possibly get in. The roof they built up with 4" of foam panels too LOL!! I can imagine what that job cost total with all they did or how long it'd take to recoup the inital investment...but it sure looked and sounded cool:thumbsup:

 

[enforcer]

i always put the wrap over the sheathing and then throw on the insulation board..

 

[Artworks]

Alot depends on your local, I:e: high rainfall, coastal and humidity levels ext. You are going to tighten up the house with anything you do, so you want to know what the humidity level in house are now . I installed insulation ('styrafoam' ) and then tyvex, then vinyl, last siding was 'CANELEX' hardboard over tyvex, 1x4 strapping, 1 1/2" foam Celfort 'Codeboard'.
Reason for tyvex under siding:
-Vinyl will squeak on expansion & contraction against the foam
-Housewrap will run some of the driven rain away from the structure
- Flies do do doesn't eat away at the foam, taping is less time consuming.
I would only use the foil polyiso if you are working with a building with very little humidity , as there is a very real risk moisture sealed into building ( extra moisture barrier) I used it for couple reasons: farm house 2 story, no humidity issues, less thickness for same R, less build out problems , I can handle large 4 x 8 sheets myself without fear of braking , & I can use my sheeting stapler to install the vinyl.
If you tape seams of the foil, you shouldn't have to install house wrap, as foil should act as air barrier, drainage layer.

 

[CharlesD]

This may have been discussed but I just read tonight on my son's webpage that Anderson bought Silverline windows out.
Are they still making the silverlines?
I know this happened a couple years ago but I don't keep up with things now since I'm not involved in the business now..
He sold Alside but when they went with Window world, he swithed moslty to Silverlines and was very pleased with them.

Sorry, I intended this to be in new thread. Can't figure out how to delete it.

 

[welterweight]

where we are, we always put the tyvek up first and then the insulation.

as for silverline,i don't care if the pope bought them out,they make a garbage window.

 

[BamBamm5144]

The insulation in the walls is what keeps the majority of the cold out, not the siding or tyvek or insulation board although that does help somewhat. Doing that extra work involving the different vapor and temperature barriers behind the siding may not be as effective as he wants it to be. Then he will be the one asking you what you did wrong since he already established himself as thinking he knows how to solve the problem better than you.

 

[buddy110]

air moister? i don't know, but if his house is that cold add more attic insulation first,then windows and doors

that's where the majority of heat loss is

wanna save him time and money?tell him to invest in having an energy auditing firm come in and tell him exactly what he needs,unfortunately maybe for you it probably won't be a siding job

Insulation on the exteriors of walls is almost useless in terms of energy savings.
The University of Illionois did a study measuring the temperature of the interior walls with 3" and 10" of fiberglass respectfully. The outside temperature was 0 and interior set at 68. The difference in wall temps was 2 degrees. Tell me, what's 3\4" of foam foing to do?

Air infiltration, losses from radiation and poor insulation in the attic are the biggest energy eaters. Fullback insulation helps siding but not the overall energy consumption of a home.

 

[Artworks]

Insulation on the exteriors of walls is almost useless in terms of energy savings.
The University of Illionois did a study measuring the temperature of the interior walls with 3" and 10" of fiberglass respectfully. The outside temperature was 0 and interior set at 68. The difference in wall temps was 2 degrees. Tell me, what's 3\4" of foam foing to do?

Air infiltration, losses from radiation and poor insulation in the attic are the biggest energy eaters. Fullback insulation helps siding but not the overall energy consumption of a home.

I agree with you as far as air infiltration, radiated losses & attic insulation, but here in great white north, Manitoba Canada, it has been proven that adding R value to the walls, will help lower heating requirements . Most walls which are 2 x 4 ( R12) are receving 1 1/2" (R7.5) styrafoam under new siding. Our local utility Manitoba Hydro (& Gas) has a rebate program for insulation upgrades, .10 / SF / R value exterior wall, .04/SF /R value interior of wall, .02/SF / R value attic insulation & basement wall , & .08/ SF / R Crawlspace wall . Some restrictions on mimimums that you have to add. They can make more $ exporting hydro (after they supply our local demand) electric , so more they have available, the more $$$ they make.

 

[buddy110]

I agree with you as far as air infiltration, radiated losses & attic insulation, but here in great white north, Manitoba Canada, it has been proven that adding R value to the walls, will help lower heating requirements . Most walls which are 2 x 4 ( R12) are receving 1 1/2" (R7.5) styrafoam under new siding. Our local utility Manitoba Hydro (& Gas) has a rebate program for insulation upgrades, .10 / SF / R value exterior wall, .04/SF /R value interior of wall, .02/SF / R value attic insulation & basement wall , & .08/ SF / R Crawlspace wall . Some restrictions on mimimums that you have to add. They can make more $ exporting hydro (after they supply our local demand) electric , so more they have available, the more $$$ they make.

Yes, sure but what's the ROI? Remember walls lose the least amont of heat in a home