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Livin the dream...
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need some help on this cabinet style. Is it frameless? Can you get this look using a face frame with 1-1/4" and 5/8" FF hinges on a 1-1/2" stile?

I don't have any experience frameless cabinets and don't really want to start now. Edge banding seems like a pain.





 

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Maker of fine kindling
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I'm not a fan of the compact hinges. Yes they will work but for how long? And I don't like how far they hold the door off the frame.

That is a frameless kitchen. I think it should be built as one.

If the edgebanding is too daunting for you, I'd bet you could hire some time on one and knock it out in no time.

Building frameless boxes takes some time to get proficient at it. But for us it is worth knowing how to do it because of all the times that it is requested.
 

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The kitchen in my link was installed in 1994. I know all but 2 hinges are fine (which Blum sent me replacements for at no charge in 2011), its my parents home. I'm there at least once a week.

I have another kitchen built the same way that went in in 2000, 1 hinge covered under warranty. This one has 2 children (well, they're not children anymore) I see that one a couple of times a year.

I like Compact hinges.

I do agree, frameless has its place. You need to know how to build them.

Tom
 

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Livin the dream...
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This is a face frame kitchen with full overlay hinge plates. They're 2 piece 1-1/4" Blums.

https://picasaweb.google.com/tbadernwi/

I think they were 130.1100.26 and 130.1150.02 zinc plates with 33.3600 hinges.

You should download the Blum catalog, it's invaluable.

Tom
If you have an 1-1/2 stile up against the wall and a door with an 1-1/4 overlay hinge, is the 1/4" enough clearance for the door to swing properly?
 

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spencer go to hdl supply if the dont have what you need for cab then you dont need it. whole sale prices.

Yes I use blum full over layface frame is what you posted. I use 8/4 for the face frame and drawer rails on top if 5 pc is built.
 

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R. Manning Jr. Millworks
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I'm not a fan of the compact hinges. Yes they will work but for how long? And I don't like how far they hold the door off the frame.

That is a frameless kitchen. I think it should be built as one.

If the edgebanding is too daunting for you, I'd bet you could hire some time on one and knock it out in no time.

Building frameless boxes takes some time to get proficient at it. But for us it is worth knowing how to do it because of all the times that it is requested.
I agree with the above.

I never understood why shops will build a face frame cabinet then cover it up with full overlay does not make sense:no:

I'm sure you could find a shop to do the banding.
I just banded a kitchen and three baths in under an hour.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I agree with the above.

I never understood why shops will build a face frame cabinet then cover it up with full overlay does not make sense:no:

I'm sure you could find a shop to do the banding.
I just banded a kitchen and three baths in under an hour.
To me frameless cabinets seem weak. Plus you are at the mercy of the plywood staying straight. To me it is easier to keep a FF precisely where i want it for my doors to be perfect than to mess with trying to get the boxes that precise and keep them that way through installation. But I am a novice.

What do you use to do your banding? The only banding I have done is with the stuff you iron on with momma's iron. I'm sure that stuff isn't quality enough for cabinets.
 

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To me frameless cabinets seem weak. Plus you are at the mercy of the plywood staying straight. To me it is easier to keep a FF precisely where i want it for my doors to be perfect than to mess with trying to get the boxes that precise and keep them that way through installation. But I am a novice.

What do you use to do your banding? The only banding I have done is with the stuff you iron on with momma's iron. I'm sure that stuff isn't quality enough for cabinets.
The iron on edge banding is more than adequate. Just that when your doing a lot your not using an iron. There are bench top machines that use heat guns and pressure rollers for small quantities. Then there are very large machines that install and trim the tape in one operation. There is also edge banding with PSA on it so there is no heat required.
Think of all the melamine that gets edge banded, the banding is about 1 mm thick on the cheep end stuff. I've seen 3 mm on the better panels.

3mm and up edging is another animal. Handled very differently.

Most euro boxes are not plywood. They are a particle board, cabinet grade OSB or MDF. They stay pretty straight. That said I much prefer face frames.

Tom
 

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R. Manning Jr. Millworks
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To me frameless cabinets seem weak. Plus you are at the mercy of the plywood staying straight. To me it is easier to keep a FF precisely where i want it for my doors to be perfect than to mess with trying to get the boxes that precise and keep them that way through installation. But I am a novice.

What do you use to do your banding? The only banding I have done is with the stuff you iron on with momma's iron. I'm sure that stuff isn't quality enough for cabinets.
I think frameless are as strong if not stronger than face frame cabinets, also faster to build and install.

I came from a commercial cabinet shop back ground that was all frameless for me face frame cabinets are a pain in the rear.

I have a edge bander in the shop SCMI Basic 1 it's a very basic model but gets the job done. You should check with a local shop about edge banding.
 

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R. Manning Jr. Millworks
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Most euro boxes are not plywood. They are a particle board, cabinet grade OSB or MDF. They stay pretty straight. That said I much prefer face frames.

Tom
All mine are pre-finished maple 3/4" plywood as long as you don't use inport plywood and don't buy from home depot and such there is no problem.
 

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Most euro boxes are not plywood. They are a particle board, cabinet grade OSB or MDF. They stay pretty straight. That said I much prefer face frames.

Tom
All mine are pre-finished maple 3/4" plywood as long as you don't use inport plywood and don't buy from home depot and such there is no problem.
That is why I used the word "most".

Tom
 

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Maker of fine kindling
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Euro boxes are a different animal. It has taken me a long time to stop resisting them. It also has taken buying an edgebander. We used to rent time on one a mile or so away and that was fine for a while. But if anyone is considering preglued tape and using an iron should step away from the bench and reconsider.

It's not just the time it takes to iron all that tape it's making sure all the tape is properly adhered. Believe me that you do not want to take a call that your tape is coming loose.

I understand wanting to build a framed cabinet and making it look frameless to keep that one off client happy. But when you find yourself doing over again and again, it's time to expand you capabilities to include the true frameless method using a real edgebander.
 

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Now this is coming from the finish carpenter not the cabinet builder, but if you go this route, ALWAYS factor for a filler on your base cabs that adjoin a wall, if you have base taller than your kick. It seems like a no brainer, but I can't even count the times I've had to deal with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Now this is coming from the finish carpenter not the cabinet builder, but if you go this route, ALWAYS factor for a filler on your base cabs that adjoin a wall, if you have base taller than your kick. It seems like a no brainer, but I can't even count the times I've had to deal with it.
That is why you are the man. Hadn't even thought about it. Thanks Matt. :thumbup:
 
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