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Hickory Stair Treads

26K views 66 replies 16 participants last post by  dokuhaku 
#1 ·
My bread and butter for all these years has been the big box stores. I have encountered many staircases on these jobs and have great success in producing beautiful staircases with prefinished hardwood flooring. However, I have had few chances to work on projects involving solid treads.

This week I will be starting on the job pictured below. This is my plan:

The treads and risers are to match the hickory flooring (not shown) in the main room adjacent to this foyer. I plan to make rosin paper templates with the aid of a compass. These I will transfer to MDF templates, accounting for the overhang. After checking these on-site, I will manufacture the treads at the shop.
Esteemed members, I am calling upon your experience to shed light on the holes in my plan. How much time should it take. What would you charge for this project (6 curved/open, 6 pie, 6 box)? The bottom step is 8 feet at its longest point. Also, is anyone familiar with the characeristics of hickory?
Thank you in advance for your feedback. I am excited to get this assignment and am confident I will be successful. Still, I am not a Master and I am always open to suggestions.
 

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#7 ·
The riser is a little rough on that bottom step. I need to build it out a little for smoothness. I saw something recently called 'KerfCore' (?) that looked like a good solution. It is simply pre-kerfed risers in various thicknesses. I will go to the supplier tomorrow and price all of the wood. I really appreciate your insight, Gene. Thanks for taking the time.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Some progress images

Thanks for looking, everybody. This is the perhaps the most demanding project I have undertaken. I welcome feedback from the community.
These are not yet installed. I was simply checking the fit. The 2nd step is bare, but the other two have a single coat of polyurethane (Dura Seal, Satin) each. I plan to do 2 coats before they are installed and a final coat after.
 

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#14 · (Edited)
It's looking good.

Are your return ends radiused or straight?

What's your plan for the skirts? Will there be a cove mold under the noses of the treads?

I would use 3/8" bending ply for the starting riser, and then face it in place with a paper backed veneer.

You likely have to custom make the shoe as well.
 
#15 ·
Thank you for your input.

...Are your return ends radiused or straight?.
Returns are radiused. That feature, though minor, is probably my favorite detail. Neither the GC nor the homeowner mentioned it while looking at the steps. I think it would have been all they could talk about if I had made them straight.

...What's your plan for the skirts?...
The GC said he had a plan for the skirt after I was finished. Honestly, I find the steps challenging enough. On the curved wall, the skirt would have been completely out of my league. Hopefully I will get the chance to work with someone on a similar situation one day.


...Will there be a cove mold under the noses of the treads?...
The plan is to have a narrow trim run vertically, capping the end of each open riser. Aside from that, I do not plan to install a cove on the underside of the treads. What is your opinion?


...I would use 3/8" bending ply for the starting riser, and then face it in place with a paper backed veneer...
All along I have been imagining a 1/4" ply with a hickory veneer. Because I have not encountered such curved risers before, I do not yet know how it will play out.
Can you elaborate on 'paper-backed veneer'? In my mind I imagined installing the 1/4" thick risers, then creating a paper pattern (?) for the veneer which would be installed with contact cement. What do you think? :chinese:
 
#17 ·
They sure are pretty. :thumbup::clap:
I can't claim to be an expert, since the
bottom riser especially is far more radical
than anything I have done, but steamed
and bent solid wood is what seems right to me.
Hickory is a good steaming wood, but the most
I've done is for rocking chair parts.
Veneers on stair risers will look good, but
how long will it last?
Conversely, one could repair it over time.
 
#19 ·
Thanks Neolitic.

...steamed and bent solid wood is what seems right to me...
That is intriguing. I have never steamed wood, though I certainly get the idea. I suppose there would need to be a template (jig?) made for the wood to form to.
Hah! I just visualized installing a 12' long, steaming plank, drooping and dripping like a wood noodle. :laughing: (A woodle? )
That would turn a few heads.:no:
 
#22 · (Edited)
Steaming is a lot to take on by yourself if you've never done it before. You can build your own jig, use a wallpaper steamer, etc. etc. but in the end I think that's a lot more work than building it in ply and I doubt you could get solid wood to turn that tight a radius without warping.

Do some searches: steam bending, cold lamination, vacuum bending, vacuum veneer, bending plywood, etc. This will stimulate your thinking for this project and for the future.

An alternative--and the way most factory built-radius starting treads are made--is make to your own kerfs on the back side of 3/4" veneer ply and then bend it in place. Saw to within 1/8" of the finished surface and leave around 1/8" of meat between the kerfs. The best tool for this is a radial arm saw. Run the straight section long and cut it to length as you test fit.

Wet the finished surface of the ply a little with a warm sponge to prevent the veneer from splitting. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get it to bend without a split along one of your kerfs.

Norm Abram (New Yankee Workshop) has done about every iteration of radius finish carpentry you can think of on his shows. If you can find them on DVD, it would make a great addition to your library.
 
#24 ·
...An alternative--and the way most factory built-radius starting treads are made--is make to your own kerfs on the back side of 3/4" veneer ply and then bend it in place. Saw to within 1/8" of the finished surface and leave around 1/8" of meat between the kerfs...
This was the technique I was going to attempt-- kerfed pine ply w/ hickory veneer. I suppose hickory plywood is an option, thus saving a step. Though, at this point, I would not likely 'save time', given my lack of experience with such curved risers. :no:
 
#31 ·
Thanks for looking, StairMaster

I always put the riser in before the tread myself. Reduces your chances for gaps and then you don't need cove...
I will start at the bottom, installing the first riser, then the first tread, second riser, second tread, and so on. Is this how you would progress, StairMaster?

Regarding the cove, I hadn't intended to use it simply because I was going to make every effort to fit the treads tightly to the risers, just as you suggested. However, ChrWright opined that the absence of cove could be seen as 'cutting corners'. That thought sat with me all day.
When I returned home this evening, I thumbed thru several issues of Architectural Digest. Sure enough, amidst all the photos depicting the finest in craftsmanship, the stairs always have the cove (or similar).
I hope more members put in their 2-cents on this matter. I'll wait and see before starting a new thread. :001_unsure:
 
#33 ·
I've been assuming all along that the risers & skirts will be hickory as well, as opposed to painted? Obviously from a woodworking perspective this is the highest level of finish. However, you might consider the alternative for cost and time. We often have to work within our clients' budgets and suggest alternatives which give them the biggest bang for their buck--while making our work look the best/most finished in the process.

It's still a very nice look to have natural wood treads, with painted risers, skirts, coves, shoes, etc. and creates a very nice contrast. However, it's hard to tell the look of the rest of the house to know whether or not this jibes with the overall design aesthetic.

Curving and custom making the whole she-bang is expensive (or should be--I hope you're not giving your time away.) If you go painted on everything besides the treads, you can use flexible composite trims. These come in a variety of sizes and profiles.

Food for thought.
 
#36 ·
...I've been assuming all along that the risers & skirts will be hickory as well, as opposed to painted?...Food for thought...
Thats right. Hickory risers. And my mind is starved for nutrition! Will work for Food for thought! :laughing: Thank you immensely.

...The biggest "box" I've made was out
of a length of 16"Ø PVC pipe...
I saw one like this... green one I think.

...I usually do the bottom riser, then
the second riser, then the first tread,
then the third riser, then the
second tread...
Each one of these will have the riser set down on tope of the tread preceding it (working bottom to top). :pinch:
 
#34 ·
Looks good. You might search Fine Woodworking
as well.
Obviously you will need a bigger box, and
something bigger than a tea kettle.
I have modified a square gallon can,
and even a 5 gallon kerosene can,
and use my propane camp stove for
heat.
The biggest "box" I've made was out
of a length of 16"Ø PVC pipe.
 
#35 ·
Chris has a really good thought there.

As to the risers?
I usually do the bottom riser, then
the second riser, then the first tread,
then the third riser, then the
second tread......
 
#38 ·
Update

One setback I have had is that the 6 pie-shaped ('wedge'? What should I call them?) look like crap. I made them directly from paper patterns I had created on site. I may as well have drawn the radius from memory. I was stunned and ashamed at how wavy my cuts were. I will be making wood templates today and check them on-site. I lose a couple days and waste a bit of material, but I learned an important lesson. Specifically, wood templates: good.
I plan to purchase a stair wizard if I can hunt one down in town here. The six box stairs will go in last and I think this is a great job for which to finally make that overdue purchase. Thoughts?
 
#42 ·
OK I'm not speaking from personal experience here, but from a story told to me by my big brother lo these many decades ago. Seems he was building a stairway rather like what you're doing here. For most of the pieces he created a steam chamber out of a piece of cast iron sewer pipe hooked up to some sort of boiler, but of course that bottom riser wouldn't fit in the pipe.

So he soaked the wood in water for heaven knows how long, days at least. Then he had it out in the front yard of the construction site. He poured gasoline over it, and lit it. He was swinging it back and forth, flames and gasoline flying hither and yon, when the homeowner drove up in her Volvo. Eyes as big as saucers. You gotta understand that my brother looked pretty wild on his best days, and this probably wasn't one of them. But all came out well in the end -- the wood was charred when he clamped it to the form, but eventually cleaned up nicely with a sander and the customer was well pleased. Plus she had a great story to tell her friends.

If memory serves me right this was red oak.

So have fun! Light something on fire!
 
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