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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi, i have a small project to do which is to refinish about 10 or so cabinet doors because the previous contractor used some cheap stuff or incorrect application and all the stain is rubbing off.

I went to Vista paints to get the stain and they told me to use conversion varnish for extreme durability. so i bought it, 1 gallon of it and a bottle of catalyst.

ive never used this before. only the minwax varnish that u paint on with a paint brush.

Anyhow, i was hoping to get some help and tips from those of you familiar with it.

Questions:

1. I dont have a professional paint spraying rig, so i plan to use my husky HVLP gun paired with my porter cable running about 40psi. (will this work? i cant spend hundreds on a new machine or rent one because im doing this in my spare time and kind of will do maybe 1-2 per day.)

Ive used this exact same setup to prime and paint 400lf of baseboard and it came out great. Wondering if i will get good results with this set up.


2. Do i have to thin this to get it to work with my hvlp? i was told to use acetone but the stuff is so thin already. nowhere nearly as thick as paint

3. the ratio on the valspar label says 3oz of catalyst per gallon. My hvlp hopper looks like 10oz or so. If i make a 10oz batch, thats like 6ml of catalyst. how precise do i have to be?

Also if i mix 3 oz to the whole gallon, how long will it be usable for if i just close the lid on it?

4. Do i have to sand between coats?

proper drying time between coats??

5. I was planning to stain the wood, tack to clean it, then spray this stuff directly on. do i need some sort of inbetween coat?

6. specifically what do you use to dull down the sheen if its too much?

7. if i totally screw this up, will JASCO remover easily strip this off so i can start over? the label says it takes off varnish but not sure about CVarnish


TIA.
 

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Practice, practice, practice. Only way you'll know what works with your rig.

Spray some without the catalyst to see if you need to thin it. That is tip and gun dependent.

Mix per the specs.

Not sure about the sand requirement, check the website, they may have a TDS with that info.

Allow the stain to dry. Most probably not.

Spray the proper sheen over the wrong sheen. Evening out the sheen on a door with all the ins and outs would suck.

You'd have to check with Jasco.

Tom
 

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Tom's spot on. Check the data sheet or call manufactures tech support on thinning. I have seen xylene used to thin SW CV and it works well but always do what is recommended. I have never had a project that didn't benefit from sanding between coats. Only catalyze what you need. The pot life is short on CV. I have always used a sealer with CV. You shouldn't need a barrier coat between dried stain and sealer but test it to see if it lifts then consult the tech support guys as to what to use. Shellac is usually suitable as a barrier but some manufactures don"t recommend it. I know Nanochem doesn't as i just called them about it.

Also make sure that the temperature stays around 70 throughout the curing time. CV is very temperature sensitive.
 

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First of all what are you spraying exactly. Brand name and name of product, waterborne or solvent. Sounds like solvent if you are thinning with acetone.

Acetone is a very fast thinner. It'll probably work with doors, but bigger items it would make things very difficult.

Do not spray this without the catalyst. Checking it out without catalyst won't work because it will act differently.

Thinning depends on many factors. Mostly temperature. But you have to know how it flows out also to determine if it needs more or less thinner. You also have to know what speed thinner you should be using.

Most likely a gun with a 1.7mm tip will work good with the CV

This is not a normal clearcoat like varnish or polyurethane. If you put it on too thick you will screw yourself over in 6 months when it shatters and cracks because of exceeded mil limits. More than likely 3 coats max.

You MUST sand between coats, 320 will likely be fine for this. Don't sand the raw wood more then 150 grit, or again you will have problems down the line.

Getting the catalyst ratio is critical +/- 2%. If you have to guess, go with less. It'll still cure. If you put to much in it will have a rank odor for an exceedingly long time and will likely have other adverse effects.

You need to where a respirator. You should be in a spray booth. Bare minimum a well ventilated room with good forced airflow.

This stuff is very flammable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
First of all what are you spraying exactly. Brand name and name of product, waterborne or solvent. Sounds like solvent if you are thinning with acetone.

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Hi, thanks for the tips.

I am going to spray this. dont know if it needs to be thinned with acetone...im only going based off of what they told me in the store.

photo(121).jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I hate to say it but don't set your hopes too high with that gun.

Edit: That's just my experience with them speaking; I've had a couple different Husky guns and didn't have good results.
yea, i know. thats why i ask but since im only spraying like 10 doors and this isnt my main trade, can you give me some ideas about a decent economical setup?

ive looked at those paint spraying machines and such and alot run into the thousands...i couldnt justify that purchase for a 10-30 doors...half of which i plan to do for my own home
 

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yea, i know. thats why i ask but since im only spraying like 10 doors and this isnt my main trade, can you give me some ideas about a decent economical setup?

ive looked at those paint spraying machines and such and alot run into the thousands...i couldnt justify that purchase for a 10-30 doors...half of which i plan to do for my own home
You can spray with conventional setup if you get a decent gun. I've had success with a couple of conventional guns - one detail/touchup and one larger that each cost me in the 200-250 range from the local pro auto paint supplier. Don't recall brand names. Will check later. I've only sprayed solvents and cv with them when the humidity was low. Most of the time I use a fuji turbine, for which humidity isn't an issue. Perhaps leo or another of the super cabinet guys has advice about that issue: I'm not positive that it matters. I repeat about the practice. Go ahead and try with the husky first anyway - it might work and you'll get a feel for the material.
 

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....I have had good luck with cheap guns and waterborne finishes....water borne lays out like garbage when you first apply it and then settles down as it drys/cures.

I dunno, if I was doing this on the side and for the first time I would be coating with something more forgiving and waterborne.

http://www.targetcoatings.com/products/interior-top-coats/em8000-conversion-varnish.html

You don't need a cat...but if you want you can add this....

http://www.targetcoatings.com/products/additives/cl100-cross-linker.html

I use Target Coatings...my standard finish is the EM7000 High build cross linked with the CL100.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
So I sprayed a coat, waited 45 min, sanded with 320grit, cleaned with mineral spirits, then sprayed a second coat. After it became dry to touch which is 15 min according to velspar, I took a closer look and noticed that I can see tiny bubbles or slight orange peel. Is this normal? Or am I supposed to sand the final coat with like 400grit?


Does anyone sand the final coat or u just leave it alone after shooting it?
 

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Don't use mineral spirits. Always scuff between coats.
 

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The final coat. Why would you sand that? I'm sure you mean the coat before you apply the final coat.

Generally I spray 2 coats when I'm doing CV. My coating has 34% solids and I thin it less than 5%. I put the first coat on a bit heavy, scuff to 320, blow off with compressed air and shoot the second coat. Done. It gives you the opportunity to shoot another coat if you don't get the results you need.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The final coat. Why would you sand that? I'm sure you mean the coat before you apply the final coat.

Generally I spray 2 coats when I'm doing CV. My coating has 34% solids and I thin it less than 5%. I put the first coat on a bit heavy, scuff to 320, blow off with compressed air and shoot the second coat. Done. It gives you the opportunity to shoot another coat if you don't get the results you need.
I shot two coats on a test piece, sanded 320 in between. The final final coat I sprayed and let dry for 2 hrs now. Just examined it and found it a bit rough to the touch. Looking closely I see tiny little bubbles like the size of a pin point. So it's not exactly smooth and factory finish.

Does this have to do with the gun I'm using? Maybe putting out inconsistent material during spraying?

Btw thanks for the help
 

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I shot two coats on a test piece, sanded 320 in between. The final final coat I sprayed and let dry for 2 hrs now. Just examined it and found it a bit rough to the touch. Looking closely I see tiny little bubbles like the size of a pin point. So it's not exactly smooth and factory finish.

Does this have to do with the gun I'm using? Maybe putting out inconsistent material during spraying?

Btw thanks for the help
Either to much thinner or you are putting it on to heavy. You can't have air blowing over it while it dries either. You need to have air movement in the room to help speed up drying but you can't have direct airflow over the pcs.
 

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I shot two coats on a test piece, sanded 320 in between. The final final coat I sprayed and let dry for 2 hrs now. Just examined it and found it a bit rough to the touch. Looking closely I see tiny little bubbles like the size of a pin point. So it's not exactly smooth and factory finish.

Does this have to do with the gun I'm using? Maybe putting out inconsistent material during spraying?

Btw thanks for the help
Too much air
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You mean too much air or psi too high in my compressor?

I shot it in an enclosed outdoor tent, then took the piece outside to dry naturally. It wasn't windy but a minor breeze during some times
 
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