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Discussion Starter #1
Just wondering if any of you have or know where i can get some general provisions for a commercial contrat. My contracts provisions are mainly set up for homeowners and residential work. any help would be appreciated.
 

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Minnesota, I had did a websearch awhile back and found a few really good copies of commercial roofing contracts. I encourange you to try that. I will see what I have in my records but I'm not sure if I ever saved those.

Specifically what are you looking for? My commercial contracts are basically the same as my residnetial contracts but I write a letter explaining the contract and I include staging and general site provisions in the commerical contract.
 

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Commercial Roofing
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Everything I send out is in the form of an agreement withthe articles explaining the details.
 

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You can use a standard AIA document, or write one up using Aaron's suggestion, basically there should be no difference between the two contracts.
 

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My contracts consist of a service agreement and a proposals. When they sign it says "I agree to be bound by the terms found on this proposal and the service agreement on the reverse side of this paper."

Then on the service agreement I have a clause that says "All statements made on the proposal superceed any statements in the service agreement." THis way I can call audibles, so to speak, by writing them in the proposal.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the feedback i have found a couple on the net. obviously i do not want to have to pay for them but i think i have the general idea on how to modify mine.
 

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Commercial Roofing
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Make sure your attorney approves them before you sign them. Roofing is too diverse, in my opinion to go with an off the shelf office max carbon coy form.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I ended up copy a contract off the net and re vising to fit my specific needs. Thanks for the help.

I submitted a bid on a 400sq EPDM new construction 4 stories high 3000 ft of parapit 150 ft of knee wall 6 drains and 150sq ISO tapered crickets with 1/2 inch hardboard layed over all of roof deck. .032 Gauge aluminum flashings Totally adhered.

I am kinda new at commercial jobs anyone have any ballpark figures on what labor would be or total job. Normally i am around $600.00 per sq on residential 5-10 sq With ISO and Tear Off. I am at $400.00 per sq on this total labor and materials. figured $100.00 per sq labor for ISO Hardboard and rubber instalation $1.00 per ft on Aluminum flashings.

Just curious if i am going to be high. I know i can get the labor end done just don't know how other companies figure their labor.

I also added 25% profit is this out of line?
 

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I don't understand why your price would be any different for residential than it would be for commercial. Will your productivity increase? Will you pay your workers or suppliers less? If all YOUR costs are the same, are you willing to take a cut in your profit?

I have always charged the same for commercial as residential and I've done a fair share throughout the years. I've never actively sought out the commercial jobs either.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
i have never sought out commercial work either most tend to call me. Although i have bid on Quite a few and it seems Like i am always the high bidder. And not just high but tens of thousands off on large commercial jobs. I Know for a fact i am not off that far on the material price so it must be labor.

$100.00 per sq Labor only to lay EPDM totally Adhered with fiberboard seems fair to me for residential and still make 20 - 25% profit. It seems to me commercial crews make much less than this am i right? Or do commercial companies work on alot less profit say 10 - 15% or less.

Here's the deal The job i bid at $187,000.00 my profit after labor and materials is Approx $37,000.00. 18-20% .The job will take 10 guys 3 full weeks. their end is $44,000.00.

now either my end is too high or their end is or the general lied to me about the $130,000.00 bid from another company.
 

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I don't know squat about commercial jobs, but the stuff I read is guys making 3-5%. The next question is always, how do they get by on 3-5% and the answer is always the same, they do mega volume.

But what the hell do I know? I'm a residential guy. The only commercials I know are the ones on TV.
 

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Commercial subcontractors are typically limited to 15% by contract or by the owners contract with the GC. The GC may only work for the owner for 2-5% margin. It's not so much volume (number of clients) of work performed but the contract price itself.
 

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It's called contract negotiation. What you show on an estimate for profit and what your actual profit is are 2 different things. If you ever get into the big stuff you might think different.. or starve. Installing some shingles on a 2000sf house using someone elses crew is a totally different ball game than roofing a 750,000sf high-rise with your own crews.
 

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I don't see the difference what so ever. I'd really like it to be explained to me. Rich, let's discuss this as civil and rational as possible.

I'll start. So what you are saying is the guys who use their own crews working on high rises are leaving monies on the table? That's what I hear ya saying.
 

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Commercial Roofing
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We would all like to make more than 3-5% on our commercial. I do. If not , then we seek other work. the 3-5% figure is a general net margin, as I understand. I do not understand why so many work this skilled trade and the strenuous physical end for so little, especially when there is so much potential liability if something goes wrong.

We work on a 25-30% GM which trickles down to approximately 15% net. We keep busy all year and are not rich. I am thrifty with the $$$ but am not a price buyer. I look for enduring quality when I buy, which almost always works out better in the end.

I have to run a tight ship in order to keep from losing $$$ on any given day.

I do not seek to sell on price, as to do things right, you have to invest a proper amount of time into anything, and pay trained professional roofers to do it, and use high quality materials. I think the problem in today's marketplace is the fact that everyone had the disposable mentality that cheaper is better, no matter how much it costs over the expected life span in the way of leaks, repair work, lost productivity, etc.

I look at commercial this way....it takes 39 years to write off a new roof for a business.....why put on a ten year roof?

Grumpy, I hate GC's too.
 
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