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Discussion Starter #1
I hear what you guys are saying. However here in Kansas insurance companies pay $125 sq. for three tab and $135 sq. for dimensional shingles. So most reputable companies charge close to what insurance companies are paying because homeowners are going to go with that rate. Eventhough I am a good reputable roofer I can not charge much more than the going rate in Kansas or I will price myself out of the market. Now lets say in your area if you if there were 10 contractors priced all within $10 sq. of one another and you were $75 a sq higher who do you think would get the job?
Also understand that our workman comp insurance is no where near what you guys are paying in your areas. Most companies in this area only receive $250 sq for flat work. I hope I cleared up a few things. Thats why I been thinking of leaving Dorthy and Toto behind and heading for the hills!! One great thing about Kansas is were in the hell belt.
Thanks
Kansas
 

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letscut said:
I hear what you guys are saying. However here in Kansas insurance companies pay $125 sq. for three tab and $135 sq. for dimensional shingles. So most reputable companies charge close to what insurance companies are paying because homeowners are going to go with that rate. Eventhough I am a good reputable roofer I can not charge much more than the going rate in Kansas or I will price myself out of the market. Now lets say in your area if you if there were 10 contractors priced all within $10 sq. of one another and you were $75 a sq higher who do you think would get the job?
Also understand that our workman comp insurance is no where near what you guys are paying in your areas. Most companies in this area only receive $250 sq for flat work. I hope I cleared up a few things. Thats why I been thinking of leaving Dorthy and Toto behind and heading for the hills!! One great thing about Kansas is were in the hell belt.
Thanks
Kansas
Its all a ploy by the goverment ( republicans), Industry ( not roofing) to lower the wage and working conditions of the american worker.
Solution: you either fight them or join them
 

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I charge much more than the going rate because I have learned to explain the differences between myself and the average contractor who charges the going rate. I go above and beyond the code and manufacturer's spec and I show the customer how that is a benefit to THEM.

I believe you can stick me in any area and once I learn the general roofing practices of that area, I can blow away the "going rate" competitors. Keep in mind sales approaches and roofing systems need to be tailored.
 

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Grumpy said:
I charge much more than the going rate because I have learned to explain the differences between myself and the average contractor who charges the going rate. I go above and beyond the code and manufacturer's spec and I show the customer how that is a benefit to THEM.

I believe you can stick me in any area and once I learn the general roofing practices of that area, I can blow away the "going rate" competitors. Keep in mind sales approaches and roofing systems need to be tailored.
deleted for lack of adding real input to the original post.

My apoligies
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
prices

I hear you but I have been roofing for a long time all over the country. I don't care how good you are in roofing or how great your name is; if all the contractors are reputable roofing contractors all priced about the same as you are the only way to sell roofs at a higher price then most is to talk trash on the other roofing companies. No homeowner in their right mind would pay one contractor much more than another contractor if bid placed is bid apples to apples. Throughout the years you may find one or two homeowners willing to pay more because of your name but most people get two or three bids from other contractors. I don't know of any type of business roofing, Wal-Mart, Lowe's, painters, etc. any business has to be competive in prices or they would be put out of business, before they even got started. Hell look at Wal-Mart everybody trustes Wal-Mart they are the most dominant retail store in the world with the lowest prices, but if they raise their prices at any time people would go back to the Blue Light specials at K-Mart. You see my point now. Like I said before "Hire the best or leak like the rest"
One bad Kansas roofer
lol
As I can see there are three different types of bidders
one is the high priced bidder,which would usually leads to bankrupt even if he is the better roofer or not
two is the middle bidder which does a good job gets a lot of work and makes a comfortable living
third is the cut throat under bidder which usually gets the reputation of shady work for cutting corners, and in the end doesn't make enought to stay afloat
Those are my opinions as you will probably agree they are close to true
 

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Discussion Starter #7
bidding

AaronB. said:
But do you guys sell your work or just bid it out?
i sell and do the work i very rarley hire subs only when i have to much work to handle i have a salesman that sells while i work beside my guys i do that to show them i am not afraid to sell or work what ever it takes to sell and do the job at the going rate in kansas
 

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So if your gettingthe "gpoing rate", am I wrong to assume that you dont even try to get any more for a quality installation as compared to the trunk slammers that get the "going rate" for their lack of quality installations? Is your quality not worth more in terms of security for the customer, peace of mind, no down time due to roof leakage onto the computer or stack of important papers etc, no l do not believe that if youre getting "the going rate" you are trying to sell. Selling, as a couple of old timers told me, is getting higher dollars and higher profits for like services. You do not have a salesman, you have an order taker. I am not even going to press this issue anymore, bacause I just realized something.....If everyone had a true salesman, we would all be trying to sell on quality, performance, and professionalism instead of low price. There will always be you price sellers, as you will always be price shoppers, also. If price is the most important thing to you, welcome to the Wal Mart mentality, where you have the lowest prices, but drive down the standard of living for your workers, and the industry as a whole.

When all you can get is the going rate, you need to hire a true salesman.
 

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ANd you should look around at the big succfessful roofing companies in our area...when you bid against them, do they have the lowest prices, or are they way way above yours?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
pricing

some one gets 3 bids and there all the same and your 500.00 higher then them all you are not gettin the job good salesman or no salesman i don't care who you are maybe one time you talked a little old lady out of more money but that does not happen all the time and you know it...
 

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If your theory is correct, everybody would be living in one room shacks and driving geo metros, as they are the cheapest way to go, and you know it.
 

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P.S. I am sorry that you cannot sell your work at rates to turn a profit over the illegals and scammers. :(
 

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some one gets 3 bids and there all the same and your 500.00 higher then them all you are not gettin the job good salesman or no salesman i don't care who you are maybe one time you talked a little old lady out of more money but that does not happen all the time and you know it...
Look, I'm not a roofer, but I am a contractor. Did you come to this site to learn, and help by sharing ideas about the industry, or did you come here to whine about how you can't get a good price for a job? If you think successful contractors make their money by scamming little old ladies, then I pity your customers and employees. If you don't want to listen with an open mind on how to better price a job, or any other tidbit that might help you make a better profit, or be more successful in general, then you might as well get a job working for someone else. As I posted earlier in your first thread, I was in the same frame as mind as you are back several years ago. I started asking questions, and mainly listening to other successful contractors, and tried out different methods, styles, approaches, and systems. When my clients get 3 bids, I'd bet I'm the highest one 9 out of 10 times. I learned how to sell my self, and distinguish myself from the others. And now, I'm only a small-time painter/paperhanger, but I bet my bottom line nowadays would make you cry like a little girl. :cry:

Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
The truth hurts, but it will set you free.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
pricing

That's exactly why you refer to them as big roofing companies, because you are not one. Big companies get big by competitive pricing and staying around the going rate. This is not an assumption this is a fact. My annual sales last year were $1.9 million I understand this is nowhere around what you in the larger cities make a year but for a small time company like myself I think that is pretty good. Being in the roofing business for many years I don't see how you guys are saying that you go above and beyond specs for the roof and sell at a higher price. I don't have to sell at a higher price to go above specs; I go above and beyond on all my work; to please the customer with quality job no matter what the price. Now if you actually think that you can sell a job for a lot more than your competitors and still stay in business its a dam lie, excuse my french. And any true contractor that reads this post and knows where I am coming from understands that being competitive is the key to success. I am sure every now and then you can sell a job higher than the rest because of your name but those instances are few and far between. And if you are doing it everyday you are talking trash on the competition or taking advantage of little old ladies. Its easy to say that you are all so great and can sell for a higher price than others in your area but the truth of the matter everybody knows you must stay competitive to make it in business. If I am wrong about you then I apologize but my experience tell me otherwise. Because around here large companies and small all bid about the same price. I don't go under the going price but I stay competitive. I would also like to know what you consider above and beyond specs; which enables you to charge such a high price. Like I read from someone above if you consider ice and water shield, pipe jacks, valley metal, etc. above and beyond I consider this part of the job. I only know one way to do a roof and that is the right way. Hell maybe I should tell my customers I will add an extra nail in the shingle but I am going to charge them an extra $40 more a square because that makes me a better roofer than the next guy. The homeowner would bust up laughing kick me in my ass and send me down the road and call another contractor. Even if I tried to sell to the customer till I was blue in the face they would still think I was nuts. Because this is not rocket science in today's world you have got to be competive thats the moral of the story. If you are so great and you get the higher prices in your area you would be one of the larger companies that you refer to up top. Thats my opinion. Like I said "Hire the best or leak like the rest"
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
reply

ProWallGuy said:
Look, I'm not a roofer, but I am a contractor. Did you come to this site to learn, and help by sharing ideas about the industry, or did you come here to whine about how you can't get a good price for a job? If you think successful contractors make their money by scamming little old ladies, then I pity your customers and employees. If you don't want to listen with an open mind on how to better price a job, or any other tidbit that might help you make a better profit, or be more successful in general, then you might as well get a job working for someone else. As I posted earlier in your first thread, I was in the same frame as mind as you are back several years ago. I started asking questions, and mainly listening to other successful contractors, and tried out different methods, styles, approaches, and systems. When my clients get 3 bids, I'd bet I'm the highest one 9 out of 10 times. I learned how to sell my self, and distinguish myself from the others. And now, I'm only a small-time painter/paperhanger, but I bet my bottom line nowadays would make you cry like a little girl. :cry:

Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
The truth hurts, but it will set you free.



I came to this site to learn a little bit more than I already know and I guarantee your bottom dollar would not make me cry. I just find it very funny that so many people are going above specs and selling at a higher rate, you know and I know it is bs. maybe a little higher than the rest i believe... i know this sounds lame and kinda stupid but i would be willin to post bank records if you would do the same to see who would cry. and i hope your not in my state of mind... lets all list our business and names and area and i bet with in one week i can prove that you all are competive in pricing
 

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letscut said:
I just find it very funny that so many people are going above specs and selling at a higher rate, you know and I know it is bs.
letscut, Is anyone in your area doing better than you are? If so, do you understand why? A good salesperson can easily double your profits, I know because I had one years ago. I was being competitive and not selling, I learned a lot from that man.
If you are doing what everybody else is doing, you are going to be like everybody else. If you can make yourself stand out from the crowd, you can command higher prices. The formula for this is simple and has been covered here many times, look in the 'business' archives.
I'll show you mine if you'll show yours is childish.
 

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Granted, many medium to larger companies sell on volume, where you have to have 4 jobs going all the time to make money. However, being a smaller contractor like it sounds you are, you have the opportunity to sell yourself more, ( as others have mentioned ).. people buy from people they trust, often times that is worth more. Your not going to get every job, but it may be the differance of a few hundred dollars. If $2-300 being high and your still not getting the jobs then something else is wrong. Analyze your steps.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
to Teetorbilt

Teetorbilt said:
letscut, Is anyone in your area doing better than you are? If so, do you understand why? A good salesperson can easily double your profits, I know because I had one years ago. I was being competitive and not selling, I learned a lot from that man.
If you are doing what everybody else is doing, you are going to be like everybody else. If you can make yourself stand out from the crowd, you can command higher prices. The formula for this is simple and has been covered here many times, look in the 'business' archives.
I'll show you mine if you'll show yours is childish.


Yes I understand it being childish but I think I mentioned something like it in the post before I even typed it. I respect everything you have to say because I have read a lot of your posts and they all seem very good. I only put the childish quote in their because he does not have a clue what would make me cry and if he wanted to make a comment like that I was going to prove to him that his bottom dollar wouldn't make me cry like a girl. But owell and yes I do understand what everyone is saying about salesmen and higher prices and yes a good salesmen is always great and I have a good one including myself. I am never the lowest priced I am in the competitive price range, which I should be for my area. I understand my prices seem kind of cheap but that is the going rate here in Kansas. You are right in some cases you can get a couple hundred dollars more but not all the time. You guys seem way to smart to actually believe that you can not price yourself out of the market. I have talked to 5 different homeowners since this conversation has begun and 4 out of the 5 said they would go with a reasonable comparative bid and the last one said the cheapest bid so we all know he is out of the pole. Don't think I don't respect everyones opinions that leaves posts because I really do. it seems teetorbilt , red cedar , grumpy , and arron b realy know what there talking about and i love reading your post... thanks for all the thoughts on this subject , i guess i will have to post a joke to make every 1 smile.... :)
 

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letscut said:
You are right in some cases you can get a couple hundred dollars more but not all the time. You guys seem way to smart to actually believe that you can not price yourself out of the market. I have talked to 5 different homeowners since this conversation has begun and 4 out of the 5 said they would go with a reasonable comparative bid and the last one said the cheapest bid so we all know he is out of the pole.
If you have read my posts then you know that I redefined my market and kept my ears and eyes open for opportunities, both highly profitable moves.
The key to commanding the higher prices is to be the best, not just better than the next guy, THE BEST. People will pay when they know that they are getting 'the best' that they can get. My cabinetry shop has contracts out 2 yrs.+ and you don't want to ask what I charge. Why is this? Because I'm the best.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
best

Teetorbilt said:
If you have read my posts then you know that I redefined my market and kept my ears and eyes open for opportunities, both highly profitable moves.
The key to commanding the higher prices is to be the best, not just better than the next guy, THE BEST. People will pay when they know that they are getting 'the best' that they can get. My cabinetry shop has contracts out 2 yrs.+ and you don't want to ask what I charge. Why is this? Because I'm the best.
now how can you be the best in cabinets when i am lol, never built one before. i guess your sayin should be , " HIRE THE BEST OR HAVE SAGGIN CABINETS LIKE THE REST " WELL THANKS... FOR THE INFO....
 
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