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Hair Splitter
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You're wired too tightly. Chill out. She didn't "have to" do anything - just offered a kind gesture to clarify. You should have figured it out already.
Not wound too tight at all. You are reading way too much into it. It's an agenda driven question. Even reworded it reads wrong. So we wouldn't hire women if there was no shortage. As if there is a line of women wanting to work but we won't let them, but now there is a labor gap we will fill it with them. Okay girls, you can come and play. Again, it's a dumb question. Did did you stop beating your wife? is a great example.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
Not wound too tight at all. You are reading way too much into it. It's an agenda driven question. Even reworded it reads wrong. So we wouldn't hire women if there was no shortage. As if there is a line of women wanting to work but we won't let them, but now there is a labor gap we will fill it with them. Okay girls, you can come and play. Again, it's a dumb question. Did did you stop beating your wife? is a great example.
Enough is enough. Knock it off.
 

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Hair Splitter
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Ok, I'll be more clear. I thought the OP's article provided enough context to have some civil chit-chat without calling the question dumb and/or calling it a trap.
The article starts with a liberal slant saying it's not for a lack of interest. Again, women aren't oppressed. If they can do the same job they are more than welcome to be employed. But I won't run a business like the fire department and lower standards. Men and Women are different. Most women are not physically built for construction. It's just the way we were made.
 

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Hair Splitter
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Enough is enough. Knock it off.
I will never knock off defending a position of truth. Your article is liberally biased and the premise is liberally driven. It's a free country. If you guys don't like what I say you have the power to boot. Don't post controversial topics if you don't want it to get controversial.
 

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Discussion Starter #66

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Someone who gets my point. It's a dumb question.
You're just trolling now Rob. Like I said some of us don't think it's a dumb question, I've been in construction my whole life and I have only worked around the women I have hired. I am as qualified a contractor to answer that question as you are, And it's not a dumb question, nor do I think that cricket was trying to be adgenda driven. In the years she's been on this board I haven't ever seen her post anything that was agenda driven

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I apologize for my poorly worded question. My purpose was exploring if hiring more women would help with the labor shortage issue. What I am hearing from y'all though, is for the most part women aren't applying for work. Of course, that makes me wonder why...
Both men and women can do whatever job the other can do (with exceptions)... all it takes is the drive to want to... but some are more suited for different careers...

Other industries that are more women dominated, take child-care providers as example (although there are many examples), there isn't a lot of second guessing as to why more men aren't being tapped to fill the void in that growing labor market...

The reason men are not is probably along the same lines as women in construction labor (as opposed to office work which is more common)... they're more suited for what they choose... if they were really interested, they'd be applying... no-ones stopping them...

CAN a women do labor in construction... sure... just like a man can do child care... there are diamonds in the rough in every industry that go outside the box, and we see female members on here as well, but it's also hard on the body, and not a lot of woman I know want to be potentially knarled up with arthritis, blown knees and shoulders, back issues, leathered up skin, dried cracked hands, etc. working the trades... may not sound appealing to a women and I totally respect that...

There are simply some careers women are better suited for as is the case with men... and they vote on that with their feet... it's their choice...

A willing capable person is more important to me than whether that person belongs to one group or another...
 

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I apologize for my poorly worded question. My purpose was exploring if hiring more women would help with the labor shortage issue. What I am hearing from y'all though, is for the most part women aren't applying for work. Of course, that makes me wonder why...
Cricket, being a female, and on a contractor site, you could probably provide US with some insight... why would a career in construction as opposed to what you do now, be appealing to you as a women or what would it take to make it appealing to you?...
 

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water re-locater
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If she can carry a 40’ ladder and has no issues hanging over the edge of the roof 3 stories up would have no problem with it.

Saw a Mexican crew that had a female. Think she was just the driver and gutter maker.


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You're just trolling now Rob. Like I said some of us don't think it's a dumb question, I've been in construction my whole life and I have only worked around the women I have hired. I am as qualified a contractor to answer that question as you are, And it's not a dumb question, nor do I think that cricket was trying to be adgenda driven. In the years she's been on this board I haven't ever seen her post anything that was agenda driven

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I am not going to disagree with you, and, I am not going to defend TNT, but, both of you have some valid points. Unfotunately the question is based on an agenda driven article.

Here are some excerpts from that article:

"only three percent of the workforce is female. This isn’t for a lack of women interested in the trades — in fact, they would love the increased income and opportunities to gain specialized skills."

"Women are pushed out and pushed against from the moment they walk in the door. Most of us grin and bear it, participate in the jokes, and play along, because it’s our only choice. There needs to be MAJOR changes, started from the ground."

"It’s us girls against the world out here. "

"Cure the Sickness in the Industry: Hire Women, Improve Safety"

"Women are just as capable as your men. They’re waiting in droves for chances to learn vital skills like those developed in the trades. But until they’re given a chance, a place to enter the industry safely, you’re going to continue to watch things get harder and harder for the men who remain."

Sorry to say, but there is bias galore here. And, the author of the article has an agenda and her entire article is based on: (1) an unsupported generalization that large numbers of women are waiting and trying to get into the trades"; (2) a small number of anonymous statements and quotes from women that support the author's argument.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Cricket, being a female, and on a contractor site, you could probably provide US with some insight... why would a career in construction as opposed to what you do now, be appealing to you as a women or what would it take to make it appealing to you?...
I have worked with primary men my entire life. Heck, even the industry I am in now tends to have far more men than women. MANY years ago I drove 18 wheelers (flatbed) and did not have issues with being a woman, other than I felt the need to work harder than anyone else to prove myself "worthy".

I think maybe it goes back to childhood for most women, as far as what women (and men) see themselves doing. As a young girl, when the other neighborhood girls were playing with dolls and playing house, I was exploring in the woods, riding my horse, and playing kickball with the neighborhood boys. I was raised to follow my dreams, whatever they might be. I tried to raise my children (2 boys and 2 girls) the same way.

I don't know why more women aren't applying. It doesn't make sense to me. I would have been an amazing heavy equipment operator and would love to learn to build my own tiny cabin one day.
 

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If she can carry a 40’ ladder and has no issues hanging over the edge of the roof 3 stories up would have no problem with it.

Saw a Mexican crew that had a female. Think she was just the driver and gutter maker.


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A little diversity..If they have a role to fill, and can be a trusted team player, I'm fine.

I once hired a female to deliver and set-up hospital beds and oxygen "H" tanks in homes..but only after she proved she could do it safely.

Same for pip-squeak dude applicant another time..."show me you do this 5x/day"....he did, and got the job, too.

I once hired a drywall crew, and they were a motley bunch. The guy charged with mixing had one arm....that didn't go so well. And their best english speaker was the worst taper, as I recall. But he could talk.
 

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I don't know why more women aren't applying. It doesn't make sense to me. I would have been an amazing heavy equipment operator and would love to learn to build my own tiny cabin one day.
Well that kinda drills down a little on it and hits right at home ... sounds like your parents supported you going after your dreams, and you seem to have the aptitude for what you wanted to do, so the question becomes why didn't you become the amazing heavy equipment operator?

Seems you're more in a position to give us insight on this since you had more boxes checked to do it (i.e. - support for your dreams, experience working with men, aptitude, desire to want to do it, etc.) than the average women...

Based on the boxes you checked, you'd certainly be one of the ones we'd look more deeply at when applying...
 

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Well that kinda drills down a little on it and hits right at home ... sounds like your parents supported you going after your dreams, and you seem to have the aptitude for what you wanted to do, so the question becomes why didn't you become the amazing heavy equipment operator?

Seems you're more in a position to give us insight on this since you had more boxes checked to do it (i.e. - support for your dreams, experience working with men, aptitude, desire to want to do it, etc.) than the average women...

Based on the boxes you checked, you'd certainly be one of the ones we'd look more deeply at when applying...
I'm not sure this answers your question, but...

Life made a few decisions for me. I had been a director of personnel for a company for many years, and one day I was simply done with it all and went out on the open road, perhaps running away from life for a bit. The truth is, I loved pulling flatbeds (especially pulling wide loads) but I was a single mom. My youngest daughter rode with me until she was 5 and it was time to start school. I seriously considered homeschooling her on the truck, but she was very advanced, and I was worried I couldn't teach her enough (She was fully reading by 4 years old.) so I left the road.

After that, it was really a matter of finding what I could do without leaving kids in daycare a gazillion hours a week. I landed on the internet and never quite looked back. Why? Cuz I love my work and believe it or not, I am pretty good at it.
 

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I'll admit to some bias. I have 5 younger sisters and I had to "step in" on more than one occasion when some "friendship" started to take a turn. Men can be demeaning pigs as they figure out women and their boundaries, limits, etc. At the level of true professionals, maybe not so much, but down the ladder, definitely.

As for men and women joking on jobsites, I would say that men telling a sexual joke, for example, often has little something extra to gauge a woman's reaction. Building intel, if you will. It's naive to think it's innocent and the same as men joking with men.

Just my opinion, and I'm sure others will disagree.

(Of course, women aren't angels, either. No comment on that end.)
 

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I'll admit to some bias. I have 5 younger sisters and I had to "step in" on more than one occasion when some "friendship" started to take a turn. Men can be demeaning pigs as they figure out women and their boundaries, limits, etc. At the level of true professionals, maybe not so much, but down the ladder, definitely.

As for men and women joking on jobsites, I would say that men telling a sexual joke, for example, often has little something extra to gauge a woman's reaction. Building intel, if you will. It's naive to think it's innocent and the same as men joking with men.

Just my opinion, and I'm sure others will disagree.

(Of course, women aren't angels, either. No comment on that end.)
I wonder if that could also be related to where folks live.

I have lived in the South the vast majority of my life. It has been my personal experience that here in Texas men are extremely protective of women. My boys are even more protective of me. It's common around here to hear a man apologize for cussing in front of a woman. (I let them know that my cuss jar tends to be overflowing!)

It could all come down to how we were raised and what the local culture is like.
 

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I'm not sure this answers your question, but...

Life made a few decisions for me. I had been a director of personnel for a company for many years, and one day I was simply done with it all and went out on the open road, perhaps running away from life for a bit. The truth is, I loved pulling flatbeds (especially pulling wide loads) but I was a single mom. My youngest daughter rode with me until she was 5 and it was time to start school. I seriously considered homeschooling her on the truck, but she was very advanced, and I was worried I couldn't teach her enough (She was fully reading by 4 years old.) so I left the road.

After that, it was really a matter of finding what I could do without leaving kids in daycare a gazillion hours a week. I landed on the internet and never quite looked back. Why? Cuz I love my work and believe it or not, I am pretty good at it.
I respect the challenges and rewards that come from single parenting... can't imagine what that would have been like all these years without my wife...

But I think your story might also give some insight into this... hours, life circumstances, etc. - it may be the path of least resistance for some, suitability for others... it may not be their dream, but if it's like as you say (which I tend to agree with that it plays a role) that it could be from childhood, it may be what they know and are comfortable with...

Unless you're one of the few who were blessed with knowing what you wanted to do since you were a kid, most have a hard time deciding what to do with their life in the first place, never mind all the other social considerations of a career...

One thing is for sure, they tell us what decision they came to with their feet... and you've gotta' work with the hand you're dealt...
 

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John the Builder
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Someone who gets my point. It's a dumb question.
No, I didn't get your point.

My own observation is that the swing in ratio towards more women/females in this biz hasn't moved much in the last decade for ME.

So if I answer "no", it might appear I am not making the effort.

If I answer "yes", that would suggest I had not made the effort in the past.

A "truthful" answer is that good and qualified help at any level, regardless of race, gender, or ethnicity is hard to find right now in my market, and I am going to sack 2 current if/when I can find replacements.

Yes, it's like THAT.
 
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