Hardibacker w/Kerdi vs. Denseshield
Just wondering what everyones opinion on waterproofing tiled shower walls (w/ acrylic pan) was. I was planning on using hardibacker w/Kerdi but it seems that denseshield would save me some prepwork. Is it as effective? I am a framing carpenter with a modest background doing tile work so would also like to know if installing Schluters kerdi-shower kit would be beyond my skills? I've done fairly simple tile jobs in the past - foyers, small bathroom floors, backsplash so I'm somewhat familiar with tile but not particularly familiar with mosaic or schluter products. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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If you can lay tile you can install kerdi. My 10 year old nephew could install the stuff so don't be to worried about it. Just make sure you follow their instructions fully. I tried denseshield just the once and it was a nice product to use. Cant say it was any different to install than a cement board product but either are more than fine for what your doing. If it was a wet room shower i would say def go with kerdi.
You don't need to use Hardi if you use Kerdi. It goes right over regular drywall and that's actually what's recommended.
I use DS by default, and offer Kerdi as an upgrade. It takes a while to install Kerdi, so be prepared to have it take some time.
There is also a knack to getting the thinset mix just right for Kerdi. Too stiff and it's impossible to bed, too runny and it doesn't stay on the wall.
I use DS by default, and offer Kerdi as an upgrade. It takes a while to install Kerdi, so be prepared to have it take some time.
There is also a knack to getting the thinset mix just right for Kerdi. Too stiff and it's impossible to bed, too runny and it doesn't stay on the wall.
You question is basically what's easier, liquid or fabric membranes?
I prefer fabric membranes over liquid. If you read the instructions on say RedGard, there is a certain thickness you need to obtain before it's considered waterproof. Corners are finicky with liquid and you need to make sure you are getting full coverage in the areas being waterproofed. No pin holes or bubbles allowed!
Fabric membranes are like installing wallpaper. You will either need to overlap sections or use a small band of the fabric to bridge any seams.
Schluter products are wonderful. No one really knows your "skills" but you so it's not accurate for any of us to answer that question. To someone that is a tile installer, using Schluter products are very intuitive. However, if you've never done a shower before, be careful. If you screw up, the ramifications are pretty steep (hidden water damage).
I prefer fabric membranes over liquid. If you read the instructions on say RedGard, there is a certain thickness you need to obtain before it's considered waterproof. Corners are finicky with liquid and you need to make sure you are getting full coverage in the areas being waterproofed. No pin holes or bubbles allowed!
Fabric membranes are like installing wallpaper. You will either need to overlap sections or use a small band of the fabric to bridge any seams.
Schluter products are wonderful. No one really knows your "skills" but you so it's not accurate for any of us to answer that question. To someone that is a tile installer, using Schluter products are very intuitive. However, if you've never done a shower before, be careful. If you screw up, the ramifications are pretty steep (hidden water damage).
Moved this thread to tile...closed duplicate.
I haven't got to personally use the kerdi yet but had a local contractor do a couple of showers recently with it. I'm more than impressed. Seemed simple enough and works like a charm. You get a much better finished edge since it applies directly to the drywall. No worries about the difference in thickness between tile/backerboard vs just sheetrock throughout.
With DensShield and no waterproof membrane, you still have the problem of the fasteners, namely the holes they made, not being waterproofed.
Anyone know the latest on Kerdi Board?
Last I heard (at the Remodeling Show) they had finished the manufacturing plant for it, and were gearing up to start producing.
Last I heard (at the Remodeling Show) they had finished the manufacturing plant for it, and were gearing up to start producing.
They said some time early next year when I was at Schluter School in October...
Edit- they made a bench with the stuff while we were there... The pieces were "glued" together with Kerdi-fix and screws held it together until it the Kerdi-fix dried. The screws were then removed.
Edit- they made a bench with the stuff while we were there... The pieces were "glued" together with Kerdi-fix and screws held it together until it the Kerdi-fix dried. The screws were then removed.
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Wow, hadn't seen the new Kerdi board yet - can't wait to try it!!
It is sweet.
I saw a curved half-wall built with K-B. It was only adhered to the floor and adjoining wall with Kerdi-Fix and then mosaic tiled.
I don't know how I feel about using Kerdi-Fix for structural walls. :blink:
I suppose it's the same feeling most people had when Schluter said, here put this plastic stuff over plywood and tile directly over it before the thinset cures.
I saw a curved half-wall built with K-B. It was only adhered to the floor and adjoining wall with Kerdi-Fix and then mosaic tiled.
I don't know how I feel about using Kerdi-Fix for structural walls. :blink:
I suppose it's the same feeling most people had when Schluter said, here put this plastic stuff over plywood and tile directly over it before the thinset cures.
Oh, FYI-
neither of those handsome gentlemen on the Kerdi-board bench are me.. One is Tom Meehan (you may have seen his stuff in Fine Homebuilding), and the other is a moderator from the JohnBridge forums named Brian.
The Schluter guys showed us a video produced in Germany with two guys assembling an entire bathroom in a basement using 2" Kerdiboard. No framed walls anywhere. I'm not sure I'd go that route, but look forward to 1/2" Kerdiboard for showers built within stud-framed walls.
neither of those handsome gentlemen on the Kerdi-board bench are me.. One is Tom Meehan (you may have seen his stuff in Fine Homebuilding), and the other is a moderator from the JohnBridge forums named Brian.
The Schluter guys showed us a video produced in Germany with two guys assembling an entire bathroom in a basement using 2" Kerdiboard. No framed walls anywhere. I'm not sure I'd go that route, but look forward to 1/2" Kerdiboard for showers built within stud-framed walls.
I highly recommend Kerdi for showers and tub surrounds as well. It's not as important to waterproof a shower when you use an acrylic base, but I do not recommend plastic bases since they cheapen the job and don't look so good after a few years.
However I sell Kerdi when ever waterproofing is needed, all showers and tub surrounds too.
A good illustration why to use Kerdi in your next waterproofing tile job.
However I sell Kerdi when ever waterproofing is needed, all showers and tub surrounds too.
A good illustration why to use Kerdi in your next waterproofing tile job.
A KERDI ice chest. This ice chest was built several years ago. (I think it was built in 2002?) What is behind the pretty orange stuff? Cardboard, it's a regular cardboard box.
The same bench as Alex's pic at CTEF Schluter workshop 2 months ago.
I knew I recognized him. I met him at '09 Coverings.
For a minute there, I thought I knew you Alex!
For a minute there, I thought I knew you Alex!
Who's Alex?:whistling
Oh and, DensShield is great for tub surrounds, I Redgard the seams using Laticretes fabric and Redgard over the nail heads, 100% waterproof.
Oh and, DensShield is great for tub surrounds, I Redgard the seams using Laticretes fabric and Redgard over the nail heads, 100% waterproof.
Where ya been, sucka? :thumbup:
I guess I'd ask, why do you feel you need to use something like kerdi? I could see using it if the shower/tub surround is already done--in drywall, but if not, then just use one of the backerboards or if you're concerned about waterproofing the walls, stick up denshield. I've not heard of any product failures with any of the manufacturer's CBUs on the wall w/o waterproofing added on top of them. If there were, I'm sure they'd change/remove their product or change their install recommendations on their net sites.
While the products themselves might not fail, they are not designed to be waterproof. I have seen mold behind most surfaces that were not waterproofed in a wet location.
But is it necessary to waterproof a vertical surface? I don't see any need for it unless one is selling a product that does. He could just use a regular CBU and be fine as millions of units have been done this way. If he has any concerns, he could redguard the lower portions, joints and make sure he caulks the bottom joint line good. All for $39.
Or skip most of that and just use denshield in the first place.
Or skip most of that and just use denshield in the first place.
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