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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So with the help of Tom (tjbnwi) I built my second cabinet for a client on a bath remodel. It went much better than my first did...

My problem which you can hopefully see in the photo well enough, I assume is a grain raise of sort? I'm new on terminology to wood working and finishes.

The face frame material was poplar from Home Deopt. I've done some reading to try and figure out the solution and I think a read (a few days ago...) there is soft and hard poplar. No clue which this was. It was about $1.00 bd ft at HD.

I sanded it to 120, primed with Zinnser 123, hand sanded with 120, 2 coats of BM Regal Semi-Gloss. This is what the finished result looks like.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzqLSL9NWPOkbi1IZnBUakpCQ3c/edit?usp=sharing

Do I need to use an oil primer instead of latex to keep this from happening in the future. On paint grade cabinets should I use maple instead of poplar for the ff? Everything was brush work btw.

Thanks for your help guys.
 

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Finish Carpenter
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When the grain raises from water based primers, once the primer is dry and you sand it back, that's it. The grain won't come up again as the binder in the primer locks it all down.

While oil and shellac raise it less, I find the biggest advantage to them is the superior sanding they allow.
 

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When the grain raises from water based primers, once the primer is dry and you sand it back, that's it. The grain won't come up again as the binder in the primer locks it all down.

While oil and shellac raise it less, I find the biggest advantage to them is the superior sanding they allow.

Yep, we usually prime with original kilz. Sands very nice.
 

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Livin the dream...
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You are seeing some raised grain but that isn't all. When most guys talk about raised grain they are talking about the looser wood fibers swelling and standing up due to moisture. You sand and you're good to go.

I don't know the correct terminology to describe it but with poplar you see the "larger" grain areas often telegraphing through the paint.

You can see ti well in this picture. These are some cabinets I did. The doors are poplar slabs.



If you want smooth you need to use maple. It is much "slicker" because its a tighter grain and harder. You won't see what you're seeing now.

I don't think you are going to fix what you are seeing from sanding. It is in the wood.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yep, we usually prime with original kilz. Sands very nice.
I'm priming with Zinsser 123. Just primed a column base that I built today out of fir, pine, and plywood for a replacement. It looked like the grain was raising on that stuff too... I'm now wondering if my primer got left out over the winter and frozen or something weird going on with that gallon of primer. I don't usually have issues with grains raising up more on pine when priming it.

All that being said... lol, is there anything wrong with 123 vs kilz vs ?
Won't they all do roughly the same thing if any grain raise will happen?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You are seeing some raised grain but that isn't all. When most guys talk about raised grain they are talking about the looser wood fibers swelling and standing up due to moisture. You sand and you're good to go.

I don't know the correct terminology to describe it but with poplar you see the "larger" grain areas often telegraphing through the paint.

You can see ti well in this picture. These are some cabinets I did. The doors are poplar slabs.



If you want smooth you need to use maple. It is much "slicker" because its a tighter grain and harder. You won't see what you're seeing now.

I don't think you are going to fix what you are seeing from sanding. It is in the wood.
I haven't had a lot of experience with working with bare wood of any type so I wasn't too sure. I've done a fair amount of painting but everything we buy is pfj pine. As I was saying in my other post, that base I was priming looked a little more like lots of little tiny ends of grain raising up maybe as I looked back at sides that were still wet. I'll see in the morning what it looks like and plan to sand it down anyway.

But on the poplar, like you're saying, it was a very large section where you could see a difference in the grain and it raised up what seemed to be a lot but it wasn't little points, it was a large section, the whole thing.

So... I guess it's trial and error, practice and more practice, and one day I'll be better at this stuff... :thumbup:

We're slowly doing more custom wood stuff, nothing like what a lot of yall do with cabinetry and all, just little built-in bath cabinets, etc but I'm enjoying it.
 

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Poplar can be quite soft sometimes. What might be happening is if the grain has hard spots to it, it's getting a wave to it from the RO sanding pad.
I would try blocking it out by hand. I use small scraps of 3/4 cabinet plywood that I round the edges off a little. ( you can use any scrap of hard wood, oak would be good. Just nice and smooth) I cut them to a size I can wrap a 1/4 sheet of sand paper on. 120 grit. Prime. Hit it again with the block and you're really gonna see where your high spots are.
 

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Particulate Filter
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The photo looks like stringy over brushed paint to me, not grain raise at all. Never used the regal on woodwork. I have found the miller paints produce that striated look progressively as a you add more coats. Its just the nature of the coating and the reason I try not to use their paint on mill work. I would sand and try a different coating like pro classic or preferrably sologloss.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The photo looks like stringy over brushed paint to me, not grain raise at all. Never used the regal on woodwork. I have found the miller paints produce that striated look progressively as a you add more coats. Its just the nature of the coating and the reason I try not to use their paint on mill work. I would sand and try a different coating like pro classic or preferrably sologloss.
Well, it may not be grain raise, but it's not over brushed paint... It only did it in a few places but it was there after the primer coat. That's just the only close up I took.
 
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