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Preserving the Past
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Got some new blades for the Shaper. Gonna give them a whirl tomorrow. These were made to match existing profiles.

About $1,600.00 worth of custom work, just in the cutter heads and blades:eek:

I might want to think about getting a Molder soon.

* sorry for the cell phone pic, I gotta start taking a camera again!
 

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Maker of Fine Sawdust
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W&H basic machine is about $1700. The Shop Fox is much less than that.

W&H

Shop Fox
 

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I have the W&H. It is so old it is the original gray color, not the new red color. I have upgraded it with the variable speed package. This is a must if you are running cutters bigger than 4 1/2". I was looking at the fully loaded system they have there. It is a couple of hundred dollars more than the kit with the variable speed add on. Both do the same thing. you'll just have two boxes on the side of the machine instead of one.



 

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Yep I agree. Tell that to the designer (HO). Main problem was they wanted the sills to protrude as little as possible and you can't have a nice build up of molding without it sticking out. Otherwise it looks kinda funky.
 

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That was an exterior molding for a house. It had a cove on the bottom and a large thumbnail on the top. I had to form the flat with the TS because the molding was bigger than the molder could handle.
 

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miterclamp.com
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I would be very careful running those heads! I have never seen a head with a Zero degree cutting angle! It will require a huge amount of horsepower, and I would quess that the knives will dull and start burning very quickly.

The "standard" cutting angles have been 12 degrees for hardwoods and 20 degrees for softwoods for many years, with 15 degrees being a compromise and adjustable 12* - 20* heads being common.

Schmidt usually has all their heads in stock, and CT Saw and Tool carries a wide variety of heads in stock in many brands and grinds profile knives for all heads - including W & H machines, which they also stock.

If you are having trouble with your moldings, it is likely not your fault, but that of the cutting angle.

Another problem with "one off" heads is that you will likely have to leave the head with a profile grinder to get new knives ground properly.

I hate to be the bearer of ....... but be VERY careful.

PS!!!!! On second thought, I would call Jim Povinelli, owner of CT Saw and Tool and a third generation grinder, and ask him about it. When cutting with a standard head, both centrifugal force and resistance to the wood, forces the knives INTO the head rather than the reverse. Tell the lady who answers the phone that Jim Chestnut told you to talk to Jim. Tell him that too. He's a busy guy.

Regards,
Jim
 

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Schmidt usually has all their heads in stock, and CT Saw and Tool carries a wide variety of heads in stock in many brands and grinds profile knives for all heads - including W & H machines, which they also stock.
That's where I got my insert head too, at CT Saw and Tool. They have alot of stock, and a pretty quick turn around. I'm pretty sure the insert head I got from CT Saw and Tool was a Schmidt too.
 

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miterclamp.com
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Marc,

I bought two schmidt lock edge heads and a corregated back head from him. I took in a Stehle aluminum head once to get some knives ground for it, and he liked it so much he started importing them, and I bought another one from him.

I think they are only a hundred bucks or so, are great for small moldings and have only one through bolted gib screw per knife. I don't even take the head off to change knives if I'm doing two different moldings. Now amana makes what looks like the same thing. He carries them too.

I also bought a couple of nice skinning knives from him. He packs a lot of stuff in there.

Cheers,
Jm
 

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Preserving the Past
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well, we ran the smaller set today and they ran quite good. They ran surprisingly smooth and I felt far less resistance compared to the off the shelf cutters of that size.

I do however feel a bit uncomfortable about the set screws not going completely through the blades. We used some lock tight on the screws so they wouldn't back out of the slot in the blades.

All in all, it worked great.
 

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miterclamp.com
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Jason,

Well, it's your life and body parts. I sent the pic of those heads to a buddy of mine who ran moldings on various machines before buying a Weinig 5 head computerized machine in about 1987. He ran in the millions of linear feet before inventing the Copemaster and selling his millwork business. He also supplied me with many miles of moldings for about 13 years when I had a trim crew in CT.

Here's the email I sent him
Bill,

I enjoyed our conversation the other day. I'm attaching a picture of a
molding head some guy posted on a woodworking forum that he had a machine shop in Vermont make for him which I think could be a safety problem.

As you can see, the knives are set at a zero degree cutting angle! All the
ones I've seen in the bast are usually set at 12, 15 or 20 degrees. Seems
to be that at 0 degrees, they would:

Be more apt to come out of the head.
Be more apt to deflect to a negative cutting angle
Be more apt to break
Dull almost instantly
Accumulate varnish buildup quicker

Do these things look safe to you?

Thanks,
Jim

Here's his response:
Jim,

I agree with everything you said.

Wow! Zero degree and no gib. Just a groove milled in the steel. Only thing pushing the knife into the pocket is the end of the set screws. I think those knives will vibrate in the pocket and could break.

The more you tighten the screws, the bigger the pocket opening will grow, offering even less support.

Not something I would run especially with those deep cuts. That is a direct scrapper cut which will use a lot of HP plus it will be hard to feed the board past the cutter.

I think I have seen zero degree on some small cutters. We used 20 degree 95% of the time with some 10 degree on figured wood and on plain saw Redwood, Cedar and Fir. The VG cut perfect but the plain sawn would lift the grain sometimes.
Not something I would run either. Especially the way they milled out the steel for the screws rather than boring through the head on an angle. If you put calipers, in that slot after tightening up the screws, you will find that the slot is wider than before - changing the angle that the screws contact the slot in the knives.

Shapers are one of the few tools in a woodworking shop that can kill, rather than just bite off fingers. I hope you don't have any employees anywhere near the machine when you run it.

Jim
 
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