How would you do that? I think you need at least a laborer. Then a carpenter.

 

That's what I thought. Until I've talked to an investor who said he has gc's that don't do any grunt work at all. They sub everything out, from demo to final clean up. I can see this being easy for new construction (just make sure subs clean after themselves). I'm sure it's not always easy, but it's doable.

Some gc's do have a lead carpenter format where they hire one lead carpenter to keep job moving and may sub everything out.

Again I'm just talking "general" contractors.

 

I GC with no employees. Of course that means I do all the grunt work. Somebody has to do it. Not too many sub's will be willing to do the grunt work, and how would you price that in?

If you think you will be bidding the jobs and then just taking the cream off the top, good luck with that. Who is going to crawl the house to see what is smelling, or if the insulation is falling down, or reattach the satellite dish, or find out if any extra work is needed, or, or. There is a myriad of things in that a laborer will do and an on site carpenter needs to do to keep a project moving forward.

This is just on a small remodel, what about a large one.

 

If you are at the jobsite doing the grunt work, who's doing the estimates for new work? Who's keeping the books, writing checks, getting lien releases? How about marketing?

 

General Contracting With No Employees




That's what the early morning and evenings are for. I do that stuff at 5am.

 

I do it by myself. No really big jobs, but have one starting next week that will be a kitchen, bathroom, and some flooring. I use temp labor for the bulk work like demo, do the carpentry myself and have reliable subs for the rest. I find this type of job affords me plenty of time for management and office work during the phases when I have subs occupying the space.

 

I know a few GC's that do. Smaller builders, 2-5 homes a year. When they need cleaning or ditches dug they call a labour service, usually have one guy that they ask for. Another one has a handyman that he uses for some of the small stuff and clening up. A retired guy who goes in once or twice a week for an hour or 2. They are all former framers that do tool up once in a while when it needs doing. They show up at the house at least once a day for an hour or 2, sometimes for the day or a morning whatever. they are VERY well organised and are always just a phone call away and always have answers to questions or solutions to problems.

 

I also work for a few one man shows probably the most organized guys . I usually price demo and clean if needed for them . A good Gc just needs to be available to answer questions when needed .

 

I GC with no employees at the moment. I sub demo and junk removal to offload a big portion of the hard work. All the other small labor I do myself. Plus rough and trim carpentry, tile work, painting, cabinets, etc. and the normal G/C duties.

 

I have several GC's that operate without employees. They seem to be the most organized of all my GC's

 

Many do it successfully. Access to capital, management chops, client skills, all reduce your need to have a crew. A lot of guys at the lower end do it by cutting legal corners.

 

I think it can be done. Obviously it is done to a point. I think the set-up that works best is a GC that has a hand in the projects. There are so many small items that fall in the grey area between sub-contractors. If you have one guy (or do it yourself) that can be the one to come in and do all the miscellaneous things, it will make your jobs run so much smoother.

I think your area makes a big difference also. I think it takes quite a while to get set up as a briefcase contractor. Calling subs and telling them to go do jobs won't work for very long. It takes them a while to do the work you are expecting and it takes you a while to learn what they are going to do and what they aren't.

 

Never had a crew or payroll. A few day laborers here and there as needed, my kids when off school, wife doing the books, now teaching my youngest to take over, he is only 20 but picking things up quick, hopefully in 5 years or so I can show up end of the week to pick up my paycheck :laughing:

 

Like it was said, illegals.

 

Why do they have to be illegals? There are numerous day labour firms in my city. They supply workers with all the certifications and insurance required for an hourly price, 4 hour minimum. You wouldn't want these guys doing anything too important but for cleaning up or working a shovel they do that well enough

 

Things are a little different down here Dom.

 

Day laborer firm...it's called The Home Depot parking lot. :laughing:

 

But it can be done I'm sure. Are there no day labour places at all in the US.

 

There are two in my small city. "Rented" employees come with insurance and PPE.

 

I think new construction could be completely subed out with minimal oversight. Providing you have constant contact and good subs.
IMHO remodeling is a different story and requires a pm/job boss to handle all of the unforeseen issues and many small changes along the way. Especially when the project is a addition / remodel.

 

I think I usually fill this role, unpaid as the demo and framing sub. By the time we are finished, the mechanicals are generally underway and most of the issues have been worked out. The GC rides it from there.

 

Or they know they have a good sub who is part of the whole team.

My plumber has been known to deliver lumber to me when I am in a jam. And cold sodas. :thumbsup:

 

Thats the beauty of what we do....so many ways to approach it. Sounds like you may be a little fed up with workers...

To me, it s all about what works best for you.....I ve really only seen one business model in residential construction make contractors wealthy....and I have seen it done twice .

 

What's wealthy? twice the average yearly salary, 5x, 10x?

 

I do, but hopefully it wont be long until I have someone hired to help.

I love not having to deal with employees paperwork, shenanigans and working by myself. The problem with this is there is only one of me and I'm working from 6:00 am until well after nightfall most days. If something comes up I have to stop what I'm doing and deal with it, which is happening more and more.

I could easily grow pretty rapidly with just a single carpenter to do the small stuff. If I could just find one I trust and who doesn't think they deserve half of Fort Knox I'd be set.

 

Wealthy ...as in retire in 40s

 

I guess it depends on the market you operate in. I'm a home builder in central Mississippi, around here most builders operate like you describe. Some of the bigger guys (by our standards) may have a Superintendant that rides around and maybe a guy that does delivery/transferring material/ cleanup/punch out stuff. Because of that the subs are used to working like that. The worst part for me was finding a guy to do the odd things...silt fencing, form wrecking, drainage, pressure washing etc.

I will say that I've tried it on remodel work to and it doesn't work as well.

 

Just to present the flip side of the coin,not saying it is right or wrong,just a different way of business. In the major mid -west city I was born and raised in,the ONLY way one could get a GC license was to be in the trades. If you wanted to take the test for a GC license you had better come from the ranks of a structural steel constructor,mason,or carpentry firm. In other words,you needed a background relating to the super structure of the building (sorry,no painters or plumbers need apply). Not saying if you had no crew it was impossible to get the license,however,more than likely,your application would get misplaced.:blink: They wanted to make sure you had a bunch of skin in the game and a way to hold your feet to the fire if they had to. A physical presents (shop/store front)makes it easier to find you as opposed to operating out of the backseat of a Lincoln Town car.:laughing:



Again,not saying it is right or wrong,just saying.

 

Here in Alabama, a GC is different than a licensed homebuilder ...a licensed home builder can do residential new home construction and remodel, a GC can build a bridge , school or about anything .

I wonder if the question here is can you make beaucoup money with no employees.

The most money I have ever seen made in residential construction was done about the same way by two different guys.

The market was growing, houses being built everywhere. One guy did trim .....subbed it all out and paid by the job....he had one person on payroll...he went in and did tie ins and specialties, uh ohs and the like ..kept crews working ...owner made 28% ...of 900,000, per year for a decade . No joke. At the bank, he is MR. SIMPSON.

the other guy did siding , gutters and trim, made 1000-2500.00 per house ...on 2500 hundred houses per year ...by himself with a cell phone and a legal pad .

That's no joke . you have to have a growing market, be very systematic and have a replicable trade to scale this way....very hard to do in , say for instance, remodeling , which is what I beat my head against the wall with year in and out!