[Casework King]

I told a GC (rich guy with an HIC Lic.) it would take me 3 weeks to complete all the finish work on an addition and partial remodel ($5000.00 job), he got the painter in there 2 days after I started and I am now 2 weeks and a couple days into the battle of the carpenter vs. the painter and he's telling me I have to cut outside in 38 degree/windy weather (Boston Ma area) so the painter can do his job. This is after I've been battleing for space to work tripping over the painters/flooring/everyones feet every day or staying home a day or two waiting for the floors to be done. I told him to pay me 10% on top to cut outside and he thought I was being ridiculous. So I walked off the job:furious: . This guy is constantly taking two steps forward and seven back. I've dealt with this behavior for two and half years now. What would you do???? oh and don't let the dog out!!!

 

[Krazy Johnni]

I think you did what was best for you, being pissed off about work before your even there never makes for good day. Sometimes in life you have to put your foot down for thing's you find important and it seems like you were justified in doing so.

 

[Kent Whitten]

I've been struggling telling contractors the same thing. let a sub complete his work, then let another get in there. sometimes you can overlap, but throwing everyone on the job to get 'er done seems the mindset.

sorry to hear that. it sucks going through problems with any work.

 

[Casework King]

yeah, you know I told him when I give a 3 week time period, I should own that house for 3 weeks, I should be able to work with only unavoidable setbacks for three weeks. A scheduling issue is easily avoided by a phone call.

 

[fci]

Scheduling problems

I have found that one of the most common problems with projects from a subs and customers prospective is that alot of GC don't have a clue with how to schedule projects. I heard of painters being scheduled the same day carpet installers are there. One of the main reasons I chose not to be a sub is because of the clowns in project management positions. I think you made a good choice to pull off.

 

[AtlanticWBConst]

Think you did right. Time to take the 'nice-guy hat' off...

I was a sub for years before getting my License and going into GC-ing. I agree, you should own that house for 3 weeks. The painter should wait, I don't care about (But, he's available 'now'....)...

I would never do that to a sub...

Worse case scenario, I would sit down with him (trim carpenter) and ask him/her to finish trimming out an area of the home that they would like to start in. Then give them a weeks' lead time, then get the painter in to do the area that they finished the trim on. If need be...kick the painter off until another area is finished...

I am not one of those GC's that thinks it's ok to put pressure on subs simply to make 'my schedule work'....I believe in keeping a 'mutual-help' relationship going at every job....
That keeps a professional atmosphere and creates better quality work...(and it avoids tension and stress = which creates lower quality work)

 

[Mike Finley]

You sound like a big ass freaken baby to me. Walked off the job? What a Diva.

Grow up, get the job done and next time CYA. How freaken hard it it to have in the agreement next time :

I GET THE JOB SITE ABSOLUTELY TO MYSELF FOR 3 WEEKS. NOBODY CAN ENTER MY DOMAIN WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION AND BRINGING ME AN OFFERING.

Do you have that in your agreement now? No? Then go finish the job and stop complaining about something you don't have any right to complain to. What's your agreement say? Follow your agreement and stop playing the diva.

How would you like to be a sub and have 2 plumbers, an electrician and 3 from our company tripping over ourselves in a master bathroom 100 square feet for a day so everybody can get their work done?

Can't work under those conditions? Then guess what? You won't be hired again. Don't mind those conditions? Then name your price and let's get to work.

Projects are projects, deadlines are deadlines, schedules are schedules. Bottom line unless he is breaking an agreement you had about you 'owning' the house for 3 weeks, stop being a Diva and go to work.:thumbdown

If it was me I would be bringing somebody else in to finish the job you walked off of and figuring out how to back charge you for everything I could. I wouldn't be happy until you actually owed me money!

 

[woodmagman]

I agree with Mike, working in and around other trades while they are doing their thing can be counterproductive. Suck it up, the rest of the industry does. On every job form this time forward have a written agreement with the builder and stick to it............

 

[skyhook]

Or hammer it out with the other guys, sometimes a simple, stay the F... outta my way will do.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

:laughing:

 

[Project53]

I try to shedual guys well.....but you have to play well with other people. Sure you have to deal with other people on site...but to walk off the job?????
I think you just killed any more work from that guy....and ..would be the same for me...

 

[IBUILD]

I am the GC most of the time, so schedualing is critical to keep things moving. If a guy tells me 3 weeks to frame, he has 3 weeks, not 3 weeks and 1 day, 3 weeks, unless I did something to slow him up, then I say well we are behind schedual, its my fault, but we need to get the next crew in here, and everyone meets for a game plan. We try to accomodate by working in certain areas, and dont leave your **** in the other guys way, if you do, expect him to ***** you out.
If the framer has to deal with a moron, I give one warning, then its see yah when the framer is done and right on down the line.
Morons dont get hired back for future jobs after the job is finished, so pretty soon you have good subs that can work togeather.
If I sub a crew out, I over estimate my time to the GC and let him know up front we have the floor for that time, if he steps in, a change order is in place for any time lost, and is not reached by threats, finess and reasoning will get you further.

 

[Ted W]

Almost every job I've ever been on as a sub had 20 different trades going at the same time. We crank up the music, laugh and basically just get along. Then there's the occasional winer who can't do this and can't do that because everyone else is in his way. I'd suggest from here on you should assume you'll have company and learn to work with others. Personally, I hate working alone. Give me a good "High End" contractor who pays his subs on time and I'd quit working solo at my first opportunity. That would be August if anyone is interested. :whistling

 

[hrscammisa]

When I was a super everyone thinks you are building this job and you are so busy. Yea busy alright playing referee between the subs its a cat fight every day. But I do agree with give me some room and time to do my work.sounds like a schedualing problem with the G.C and if he wont play ball the roll it up I dont have time for crap like that. and if thats the way he wants it to be he can have it.

 

[Casework King]

Hey Mike finley chief toilet mover, you should move that toilet under your big head to catch that oral diarrea. Maybe Mr. calorado can deal with the harsh outdoors but I'm a finish carpenter and find it much more efficient when I can cut closer to where I'm installing. It's kind've a given when there's ample workspace for me to do so (and the GC knows that what I do).... then cutting inside is what I'm gonna do. Kick me outside Then you can pay for it. Oh and mike if I leave a job I'm obviously not lookin to be hired again!

 

[Casework King]

Oh and Woodmagman thanks for stating your point like an adult..... well taken.

 

[Mike Finley]

Hey Mike finley chief toilet mover, you should move that toilet under your big head to catch that oral diarrea. Maybe Mr. calorado can deal with the harsh outdoors but I'm a finish carpenter and find it much more efficient when I can cut closer to where I'm installing. It's kind've a given when there's ample workspace for me to do so (and the GC knows that what I do).... then cutting inside is what I'm gonna do. Kick me outside Then you can pay for it. Oh and mike if I leave a job I'm obviously not lookin to be hired again!

LOL,

Don't care for the harsh taste of reality, when you figure you f*cked up big time, huh?:laughing:

Regardless is sounds like I got through to you:

He knew that I would be cutting inside where I'm installing I know it's not in the contract it will be next time

That's all that matters, that's the bottom line, you know you f*cked up and you're going to make changes in how you do business to avoid it again.

You now know, that if you come up with a price of $5000 based on certain conditions you have to spell them out. If your $5000 price is based on being able to efficiently work in the rooms you are triming then just simply say it so everybody knows.

Jobsites are variable. I've talked with tile setters who have no access to any water on a jobsite, so what do they do? They account for it in the initial bid and if accepted they have a plan in place to bring in their own water. Imagine that!

When you blow it because you either don't know you have to do these things to run your business or you run into a learning situation where you get taught a lesson, there are always 2 choices.

#1 is act like a *****, and pretend to be a victim.

#2 be a man, sometimes it's the bigger man, finish the job, don't burn bridges and adjust your systems so you don't get in these situations again.

When you choose #2, a lot of funny things happen, you make more money, you keep options open instead of burning them and your business gets stronger and stronger and more fool proof.

Regardless, I'm glad you figured out you blew it and you're going to make the necessary changes so it doesn't happen next time.

 

[Kent Whitten]

When I get to a jobsite, I usually put my head down and work, no matter what the conditions are. Then after awhile if it is cutting into your pocket, you need to decide whether or not it is enough to walk. It's got to be really bad for me. Hell, I'm working with guys who pee in bottles and leave them there which is completely disgusting. Theres 2 portable toilets right there.

Over time, I have noticed how completely impossible it is to guess every single possible scenario that could arise. There's no way to do it. I see both sides of the arguments point. Having to go outside to cut and come back in is a huge amount of wasted time. Not always do you make the right cut the first time, or the second time. Then if you never figured it in and it's taking you a whole lot more time, you are yelled at because you are delaying.

On the other hand, I understand if you don't like that, then you should make sure before you even get there to ask the really important items to you. No job is going to be perfect. There's always going to be some problems. Investigate the jobsite when you are there and ask questions. "How many other guys are going to be here" or "is the jobsite solely mine to a point before other subs come in" would have saved you much of this heartache. Keep track of all these items, write them down and make sure you ask next time if it's that important to you.

 

[Joewho]

I'd follow the guys who want the schedule.

Hard to anticipate what will or won't happen. If you could and you got it all in writing, think you'd get the job? I've had to work in a room with a c'penter roostertailing sawdust, and it wasn't cuz I was available. We laughed our asses off. (I ran stain, dust won't stick). It was ridiculous. I wouldn't come into a guys job and ask him to cut outside. The guy who made me be there will have to do that.

I can anticipate a port a potty, but I can't anticipate that it disappears before there's any usable plumbing.

Hey, the drywallers left us a bucket of mud......
Don't open it! That happened to me once.

 

[WNYcarpenter]

The brutal truth is if you're not willing to do it someone else will...

no one is the ultimate asset which production cannot continue if one particular person doesn't like jobsite conditions.

 

[Kent Whitten]

Hey, the drywallers left us a bucket of mud......
Don't open it! That happened to me once.

OMG yeah don't open it! There's a chocolatey surprise inside!