[Grumpy]

Listen to this one!

When I bud a window job at my last job (very recently quit) myy carpenter would usually come out and double check my measurements before I ordered the windows.

I have a job with 10 windows. We are supposed to rip out frames and install a new construction window in the rough opening. I saw my carpenter measuring from side to side of the interior window, then my carpenter told the home owner we wouldn't have to remove the interior trim, which confused the owner because I said we would. I took my carpenter to the side and told him that we wern't doing replacement windows and defined the scope of work. He gave me his numbers, I ordered the windows. Then my carpenter tries to install the windows like replacement windows... when my former boss brought it up, the carpenter acted like he thought they were going to be replacement.

The customer is now pissed thinking I lied to him because I told him we were replacing the entire window, frame and all. The windows I ordered are too small so the frame had to be built out. How much more clear could I have made it to the carpenter. I didn't diddle around and told him bluntly what we were to do.

 

[Mike Finley]

I don't get exactly what you are talking about, when you same frames are you referring to trim molding?

I guess it comes down to whos numbers are sent to the window manufacturer? Yours or the carpenters? If the carpenter is supposed to supply the numbers and be responsible for them then it's his fault, if you are supposed to supply the numbers to the manufacturer and be responsible for them no matter where they come from (your measurements or the carpenters) then you are responsible no matter if you miss measure of take miss measurements from a carpenter. If it was the latter I would be doing my own mearurements to verify the carpenters before anything gets ordered.

 

[Grumpy]

I am talking about taking the entire old window out gone no more, and installing the new window into the rough opening 2x4 studs... My carpenter thought we were doing replacement windows with a new construction window.

The part that pissed me off more than anything is he told my boss, who is now my former boss, that he had no idea we were removing the old window frames. I couldn't have made it any more plain as day to him.

 

[Floorwizard]

Grump, I am confused. Who is responsible?
Who is the boss out there?

 

[Grumpy]

In this case if the carpenter messed up the numbers it's his fault but he is trying to push blame on me saying I never clearly defined the scope of work. That's the point I am trying to make.

 

[Floorwizard]

I understand your point.
My question would be, is there a clear definition on who defines the work?
Or is this just a case of live and learn, and now you need to come up with written agreements to avoid this in the future?

With my builders, I have had arguments in the beginnings on where to start and stop flooring products in any specific area. Some of my vinyl was short a bit, and the builder would say "well I wanted the vinyl to come out a bit".
Well I told him he needed to take some responsibility because the areas were not as defined as easily as a bathroom break at the door.
But in addition I took some responsibility as well, because I "assumed" it must be a certain way.
So what happened?
Well now I fax to him a floor plan with the intended flooring room breaks and there has not been another issue with it.

Sometimes 2 parties should take responsibility unless one of them can prove someone else is in charge and has the responsibility CLEARLY defined.

 

[Grumpy]

I define the work. He is there to make sure my measurements are right. We use my scope of work with his measurements. Measure twice cut once, ya know. Yes I didn't think I needed a written agreement. Why would I install a new construction window as a replacement? Why would I make it a point to tell him we are removing the entire window, frame and all?

It's a sad society we live in that EVERYTHING has to be in writing. What's worse is my ex-boss tends to take the side of the installers in situations like this.

There isn't going to be any loss of revenue. I bid high enough for that... But a job that was going to have huge profit now has break even and a job that I gave to my ex boss when I left with the promise that it should run smooth has become a disaster.

 

[Floorwizard]

It's a sad society we live in that EVERYTHING has to be in writing.

Yea, it's sad we can't go on handshakes either, but times a change.....

Measure twice, cut once sounds reasonable....
it sounds like this guy just may be a twit...
sounds like someone needs to babysit just a little with this guy, or let him go.

 

[Grumpy]

Well he's pretty good most of the time. I have a saying: Everyone is a moron for at least 5 minutes a day, every day. I guess that was his 5 minutes that day.

What pissed me off is that he tried to place blame on me. Because I'm not with the company any more or because he truly didn't understand what I was telling him as the scope of work is the question.