[cooterBrown]

Hello,
I'm thinking about enclosing the upper level of my garage to take advantage of about 1000 sq/ft of space that was wasted as an inherant result of the topography of my lot.

As illustrated in the attached pix, I have an elevated foundation. I want to frame a subfloor in my garage and enclose the upper level. This will not only take advantage of much wasted space, but help with hanging the garage door openers that, as you can see, are in a rediculous configuration now and I suspect I will start seeing problems caused by the lateral movement of the hangers within a year (no matter how much angle iron they use to tie them).

I'm an above average DIY'er that has done everything from cabinets to woodfloors and tile floors. I've build a 12'x16' building framed on 16" centers on a cinderblock foundation. I worked as a plumbers helper for about 5 years while in college. I know my way around the tool bag.

The Dimensions of the garage are 20.5' W x 30' L. I plan to cut down and hang 2"X12'X22' joists the width of the garage at 16" centers directly at the level of the foundation. This make the floor level the same as the adjacent office and will allow me to make access to the new room from the office by cutting a doorway in the sheetrock directly above the foundation (shown in pix).

I think the first step would be to attached the outer frame of the subfloor the four walls around the room by cutting out the sheetrock with a laser level and exposing the studs to secure the 2X12 outer frame too. I'm not sure how to fasten the 2X12 to the concrete foundtation. Also, once I get the outer frame hung, would I use floor joists hangers to hang the 2"x12"x22's?

A pool table with 1.5" slate top will eventually reside in this room. I planned to either frame a wall centered on the floor that would seperate the two car's in the garage or use three 4" diameter steel columns fastened to the concrete floor and supporting the sub-floor above.

Am I on the right track here in my planning stages? Any planning tools, tips or tricks recommended by the professsionals?

Thanks for your advice and help.

Cut and paste these addresses in your browser for additional pix of the proposed space.

207.207.26.163/2.jpg
207.207.26.163/3.jpg
207.207.26.163/4.jpg

 

[Tinstaafl]

I'm an above average DIY'er...

Any planning tools, tips or tricks recommended by the professsionals?

Yep.

First, abide by the rules of this site, and don't register as a professional when you're not one.

Second, hire a professional.

 

[cooterBrown]

My apologies!

I didn't register as a professional. I only took the defaults and did a normal registration. The site obviously isn't clear.

Second, no need to hire a professional. I can do it myself. In every place I've lived, every framer I see in a house being erected, is a no more than a 9th or 10th grade educated illegal citezens who are paid in cash because he can't sign his own name (and contractors don't want to pay employment taxes). I have an MBA concentration in Finance. I can do simple math!

Have admin remove my posts and my user id if I'm not within the rules of this forum and I'll go elsewhere.

If this isn't a site to help people, what is it for? Why do profressionals need a forum to ask each other questions?

Sorry I ended up on your site!

 

[Winchester]

My apologies!

I didn't register as a professional. I only took the defaults and did a normal registration. The site obviously isn't clear.

Second, no need to hire a professional. I can do it myself. In every place I've lived, every framer I see in a house being erected, is a no more than a 9th or 10th grade educated illegal citezens who are paid in cash because he can't sign his own name (and contractors don't want to pay employment taxes). I have an MBA concentration in Finance. I can do simple math!

Have admin remove my posts and my user id if I'm not within the rules of this forum and I'll go elsewhere.

This is the site you want:

http://www.diychatroom.com/

If this isn't a site to help people, what is it for? Why do profressionals need a forum to ask each other questions?

Sorry I ended up on your site!

Are you saying professionals who are passionate about their business, and would like to share ideas with other professionals, shouldn't have a place to do that?

 

[willworkforbeer]

Second, no need to hire a professional. I can do it myself. In every place I've lived, every framer I see in a house being erected, is a no more than a 9th or 10th grade educated illegal citezens who are paid in cash because he can't sign his own name (and contractors don't want to pay employment taxes). I have an MBA concentration in Finance. I can do simple math!

Look here silly pants, an education doesnt make one any smarter, only more educated. I have a 9th grade education and I'll bet I could blow your freakin doors off in about any area besides finance.

 

[cooterBrown]

Are you saying professionals who are passionate about their business, and would like to share ideas with other professionals, shouldn't have a place to do that?

Absolutely Not! I apologize to those professionals!

You're correct about my tone! My hastey answer was a defensive posture to the short answer I got in the previous post.

I really thought when I was registering that I was in a site that is intended for professinals to help others out. I was defensive at the implications that I'm not capable of doing the job myself.

I think that should determination should be left to the code inspector that inspects the progress of my work when i get started.

There are too many forum members quick to draw there weapons when a little peer to peer respect is in order.

I hope he doesn't get that treatment when he is on forums dedicated to subjects that he is not comfortable with but eager to learn about by possibly asking questions that may be obvious to others.

I apologize again for mistakenly posting in your forum.

I will move my post to the forum you suggested.

Regards!

Cooter B

 

[Tinstaafl]

I only took the defaults and did a normal registration. The site obviously isn't clear.

If you actually take the time to read the rules, as an educated person would be expected to, it's very clear.

Second, no need to hire a professional. I can do it myself.

Fine. Then do so, without asking for free professional advice. Those "uneducated" workers you refer to are often quite skilled and experienced in their field. And whether they are or not, you can bet that they are being supervised by a pretty sharp cookie.

 

[cooterBrown]

Look here silly pants, an education doesnt make one any smarter, only more educated. I have a 9th grade education and I'll bet I could blow your freakin doors off in about any area besides finance.

I completely agree that the lack of education ins't mutually exclusive to a lack on intelligence. I apologize to you personally. I acted on haste when I was insulted buy one of your fellow tradesmen.

However, I'd bet this house and my vacation condo on your last statement.

Regards again!

 

[cooterBrown]

If you actually take the time to read the rules, as an educated person would be expected to, it's very clear.



Fine. Then do so, without asking for free professional advice. Those "uneducated" workers you refer to are often quite skilled and experienced in their field. And whether they are or not, you can bet that they are being supervised by a pretty sharp cookie.

Again, no implications on their intelligence, only that if they can put a hammer to a nail on joists with 16" centers, then so can I.

I read the wizard as I registered. It wasn't clear. Perhaps one of those workers wrote it.

 

[Winchester]

Most contractors have witnessed many DiY disasters throughout their careers. I'd be willing to say 90% of things that we see during our jobs that are DiY are terrible amateur work that is unsafe or just very poor practice.

Most people here would be very quick to tell you to hire a professional to do something that involves structural work. A project like this requires more than "simple math" to do safely, properly and with good building practices.

I've seen homes built by guys who can't speak english, who couldn't add 2+3, and who had no formal training at all. Some of the houses had some really nice materials but after walking through many open houses, I would never purchase one of these homes and feel sorry for someone who doesn't know better that purchases it.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Warren]

So your biggest framing accomplishment is building a 12x16 building, and you come on here and put down anyone who calls themselves a Framer?

Well college boy, I have been a framer for 25 years and know a thing or two about finance as well. Your condescending attitude is just the reason we don't like to help out people "like you". If you knew even a whiff about real framing you would have at that easy job and quit wasting time here with us amateurs.

 

[cooterBrown]

Thanks! I'm not going to purchase a strap of 2X12's and 'get to hammering'. My first step is to get some insight from some professionals, get code and other compliance issues from the county, and proceed with planning and budgeting. In the event I find that the value of doing it myself is trumped by the level of difficutly, i will hire a professional. I have to start somewhere.

 

[Tinstaafl]

Again, no implications on their intelligence, only that if they can put a hammer to a nail on joists with 16" centers, then so can I.

Understood. So could either of my sons when they were 12. :thumbsup:

But the point is that if you were fully qualified to do the job by yourself, you wouldn't be here looking for advice. The scope of what you're attempting is well beyond the average DIY level of competency, and it's heartening to see that you realize that.

Those of us who work in the field have put many hours and dollars into learning how to do it well. I doubt you'd be too interested in handing out free consultations in your chosen field; is there good reason for you to think we'd feel any differently?

 

[cooterBrown]

So your biggest framing accomplishment is building a 12x16 building, and you come on here and put down anyone who calls themselves a Framer?

Well college boy, I have been a framer for 25 years and know a thing or two about finance as well. Your condescending attitude is just the reason we don't like to help out people "like you". If you knew even a whiff about real framing you would have at that easy job and quit wasting time here with us amateurs.

Okay my friend! Good for you! As I've tried to justify, my comments were intended for the ahole that put me on the fence post, when he could have redirected me somewhere else.

25 years? Are you retired or taking a break to browse the net for advice?

I totally agree it is an extremly simple project but didn't want to offend any more sensative handy men. Unless you can argue with any of my plans, I think I got it down just right. Just wanted to know if there was a better way to hang the 2x12s to the concrete foundation other than concrete lags with all thread and washers. Then I can't decide if I want to use the 4" columns or lose some space and deviding my garage by framing a wall.

 

[Warren]

Taking a break to tell some snot nosed brat that he can get his advice elsewhere. Your plan by the way is flawed. Be sure to check on that ledger to block connection or all might not go well.

 

[willworkforbeer]

Construction is a field that takes talent, knowledge, brawn and brains. If you think it is "easy" then you are just showing your ignorance of it. We dont owe you a damn thing. Most of us here paid dearly to get where we are at. Maybe college is difficult, so are construction sites and homeowners. :thumbsup:

 

[cooterBrown]

Understood. So could either of my sons when they were 12. :thumbsup:

Perfect, then we're in agreement on the level of difficulty for your trade!

Those of us who work in the field have put many hours and dollars into learning how to do it well. I doubt you'd be too interested in handing out free consultations in your chosen field; is there good reason for you to think we'd feel any differently?

Two ways to look at this! From the forums perspective and from mine!
I write software for the financial industry. If someone comes to me with questions about writing software or about getting the future value of their portfolio, I'll gladly show them how to do anything I can do.

This isn't going to make them professionals by any stretch of the imagination and risk my job. From my perspective, I'm glad to help someone and pass on the knowledge. From your perspective, if I was looking for extra cash, hopefully they'll screw it up and hire me to fix it for them.

Trust me! Anything you tell me that might help me with my project will in no way, shape or form, make me feel skilled enough to venture out and attempt taking a whack at it to earn a living! Lets forget about the fact that I'm perfectly comfortable here in the air conditioner drinking my dietcoke and solving problems with the a great degree of difficlty. I won't even begin to mention the income gap.

 

[Warren]

I would never want your income if to get it I had to act like you. Enjoy your coke and put your feet up. Lots of woman work like that too.

 

[cooterBrown]

Taking a break to tell some snot nosed brat that he can get his advice elsewhere. Your plan by the way is flawed. Be sure to check on that ledger to block connection or all might not go well.

Okay grandpa! I'll look into that 'ledger to block' marriage! But by all accounts, it's looking pretty much like concrege lags with all thread or bolts secured with heavy wide washers and some 2x4's everty 6 to 8 feet from the floor to the base of the ledger to secure it.

 

[cooterBrown]

I would never want your income if to get it I had to act like you. Enjoy your coke and put your feet up. Lots of woman work like that too.

As all of your ex-wives did? I'll enjoy my coke! I see it's a qtr past 3 in Ohio. I'm sure you're well in to enjoying your Budweiser! Try a coke once in a while. Maybe your alimony payment will quit growing!