[arrowhead_joinery]

Hi all,
Curious what everyone's payment schedule generally is in regards to Framers?
Is 90% at substantial completion and 10% after frame punch typical?
Thanks in advance!!
-Mike

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

Is 90% at substantial completion and 10% after frame punch typical?

Depends on what your def of substantial is. That’s a broad area. I’d never give anybody 90% 1st draw. Nor would I have balls enough to ask


Mike

 

[arrowhead_joinery]

I should have been more specific. Dried in and ready for trades equals 90% first draw. I think thats more than fair and enough skin in the game.

Knowing there may be a return for some blocking and frame punch after the trades leave, then receive final 10%.

 

[Tinstaafl]

90% at substantial is perfectly reasonable, as long as you can define "substantial". Hopefully, you have a couple of draws prior to that, to minimize your risk.

 

[VinylHanger]

Wouldn't you do like 30 percent at start, 30 percent half way, 30 at substantial completion and then 10 percent when ready for drywall, siding, etc.? Or some semblance of that?

Gotta have some cashflow.

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[arrowhead_joinery]

90% at substantial is perfectly reasonable, as long as you can define "substantial". Hopefully, you have a couple of draws prior to that, to minimize your risk.

Thank you for the feedback! Yeah that what I am kind of after. What are Framers looking for in regards to a draw schedule from a GC. And visa versa.

I've been seeing a 90/10 model I described pretty often around here. But this is typically 7- 10 day frame jobs up to 3000SF. So the Framer hasn't laid out too much and he's only bringing OH, Labor and Nails.

 

[Warren]

Wouldn't you do like 30 percent at start, 30 percent half way, 30 at substantial completion and then 10 percent when ready for drywall, siding, etc.? Or some semblance of that?

Gotta have some cashflow.

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Nobody gets money up front for framing. Only materials are nails, and generally crane fees, so no way should anybody get money to start.

On smaller homes, we got 50 percent on roof completion, then balance at completion. Just a trust thing to come back and punch out some littles.

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[Kingcarpenter1]

Never heard of a framer getting front money. Exception being provides materials. OP you talking track shacks. Those 10%’s ain’t coming back if they have 30’ foyers to plumb or RV covers 30’ high to plumb up & block in. Not to mention men waiting on a hot shot load. But then you’ve got your “ There’s material down the street “ thinking they will get somebody to pack snake bracing.

Mike

 

[AllanE]

This is an example of draw schedule I recently used on a $200,000 frame contract with percentages paid:

10%​	Framing House - 1st Floor: Walls and Headers
8%​	Framing House - 1st Floor: Trusses & Subfloor
9%​	Framing House - 2nd Floor: Walls and Headers
7%​	Framing House - 2nd Floor: Ceiling Joists
10%​	Framing House - Rafters Installed & Braced
4%​	Framing House 1st Floor: Sheathing and Shear Walls
4%​	Framing House 2nd Floor: Sheathing and Shear Walls
2%​	Framing House - Tyvek Completed
10%​	Decking Installed
8%​	Siding completed
2%​	Arches, Fur Downs, Interior Complete
6%​	Windows Installed
4%​	Doors Installed
3%​	Porch Ceilings
3%​	Cornice Completed
3%​	Framing Inspection
7%​	Punchout Completed

 

[Joe Fairplay]

70% when you pass my framing inspection.
20% when you pass municipalities frame inspection.
10% when you complete final punch list.

 

[Platesurfer]

We usually do 30% at floor cap, 30% at second floor cap, 30% start of trusses. 10% at completion.

If they won't go for that we normally won't bother working for them.

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[Kingcarpenter1]

If teaching an out of College super what & how the prints read, price goes up if I’m not framing in house. Waiting on an engineer might throw a curve in there as well.

Mike

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

Yea, this will be region lesson of the month


Mike

 

[KennMacMoragh]

Is this a remodel or new construction? Your payment schedule will be different depending on which one. Remodels are harder to lay out a payment schedule. For example you wouldn't want to say 'payment upon final framing inspection'. If it's a remodel, you can have a failed framing inspection on something existing that you had nothing to do with.

 

[arrowhead_joinery]

Is this a remodel or new construction? Your payment schedule will be different depending on which one. Remodels are harder to lay out a payment schedule. For example you wouldn't want to say 'payment upon final framing inspection'. If it's a remodel, you can have a failed framing inspection on something existing that you had nothing to do with.

Okay, well the backstory... is I am starting a Framing company. I have made connections with several high end builders (20+) through custom cabinetry work. And I have built relationships with several very good Framers as well through my current position in semi- custom, "on- your lot" project management. I am going to meld the two. (Yes "labor pimp".) But I will provide all primary licensure, insurances, nails, crane and on-site management services through the dry- in phase.

I have been asked to start a Framing crew specifically by several custom builders. And continue seeing the need for getting homes framed and dried- in, in a timely fashion. I'm going to attempt to fill that void.

The primary builds I will be delving into will be new construction. About 30% will be 1500- 3000SF houses and towns. 60% will be 3000SF upwards to 10000SF builds. Leaving 10% for super high end additions.

Obvioulsy the draw schedules would vary wildly depending on the type, size, complexity of the projects. Just trying to get a temperature of what others and seeing/ using. As far as region goes, I'm in the SE.

Thanks so far, a lot of fantastic information.

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

So... your not a framer


Mike

 

[arrowhead_joinery]

So... your not a framer


Mike

No sir! I wouldn't say I am a "framer". Although I have personally been the lead on the framing of dozens of new homes, garages and additions. Been the GC on a hundred. And been the Super/ PM on at least 500 homes when I was a youngin'. With a ton of engineering and project management experience in between. Pretty well versed for this role. Just trying to have a more specific business model. Like I said been a GC before. I am looking to streamline things.

 

[Kingcarpenter1]

I would stay away from the smaller builds & focus on the larger customs. Unless of course your goal is volume & you have the labor handy. Rate hikes are already squeezing the smaller stuff down in central Tx. As we head to double digits, that market will be dead. My builds are high ranking military & big Ag. Retired agents on Comm. All built on a 30 year relationship w/my banker that knows a lot of people. Sounds like you have some good connects as well. Best to you on your business


Mike

 

[Snobnd]

You better give me some money if you want to get on my calendar then we can negotiate draw!

 

[VinylHanger]

Nobody gets money up front for framing. Only materials are nails, and generally crane fees, so no way should anybody get money to start.

On smaller homes, we got 50 percent on roof completion, then balance at completion. Just a trust thing to come back and punch out some littles.

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Makes sense. Never been a framer. But to wait till completion for any money seems crazy. I would assume there are draws during the framing phase. Small tract homes, a few weeks to weather in, sure. But a huge custom? I assume those take more than a few weeks to frame.