[Leo G]

Hey all

I am planning on building some frameless cabinets for a client of mine. This will be my first adventure in frameless, I have built quite a few frame style kitchens in my 20 years of woodworking but not a single Euro style.

Now to the question.

What is the depth of the entire box and door system supposed to be? I have asked over at the WOODWEB.com and I got conflicting answers. Being a cabinet maker and doing many kitchens I assumed that the box and door system should be a total of 24" deep. I got guys telling me that the box itself is supposed to be 24" deep and then the 3/4" doors go on top of that for a total of 24 3/4" deep. Can somebody out there who is installing or has installed a frameless kitchen give me the correct measurement. Thanks:Thumbs: .

Leo

 

[TimNJ]

I have frameless in my kitchen and I also prefer frameless over frame. My wall boxes-11 7/8", base boxes-23 7/8".

 

[Tom R]

I'm not specifically a 'cabinet-maker', - - more of a remodeler, - - but I have worked at a high-end 'Euro' cabinet shop, - - (making the carcasses and installing the finished products), - - we made them 24" + the 3/4" for the doors, - - the end panels were double-thickness (with the 'outside' panel extending the extra 3/4" to 'frame' the doors), - - then the (usually granite) countertops are made anywhere between 25 1/4" to 25 1/2" deep.

 

[Tom R]

Just to clarify, - - I'm saying we made them 'total out' at the 24 3/4", - - and I would suggest you do the same, - - doing it this way will leave you more 'adjustment' for your appliances. :Thumbs:

 

[Leo G]

the end panels were double-thickness (with the 'outside' panel extending the extra 3/4" to 'frame' the doors), - - QUOTE]

F-C = floor to ceiling

Hey Tom - The wall that I am working on will have two floor to ceiling cabinets on each end of the run. Neither of them is against a wall. The entire run consist of (left to right) 32 3/4" pantry (F-C), 24 1/8" DW, 13 1/4" recycle, 33" sink, 13 1/4" recycle, 24" drawer bank, 37 1/2" refrigerator cab (F-C). The pantry box will be 25" deep + 3/4" doors for a total around 25 3/4". The left side of this pantry will have a joint showing between the lower (34 3/4" tall) and the upper (58 3/4" tall), the right side joint will be covered by the countertop. Now acorrding to Euro styling I am to put a panel (ply in this case), F-C on the left side and it should come out to be flush with the front of the doors/drawers, correct?

Now isn't that going to make the cabinet look off balanced? Having a "framed" look on one side but not the other? Not being critical, just trying to figure how to go about building these #@#*!! cabinets. I will probably make my boxes 23 3/4" deep and they will have 3/4" doors, we'll see.

I do have a built in oven that is going to be on the island and that will be a framed style cabinet to look as furniture.

 

[Tom R]

Now acorrding to Euro styling I am to put a panel (ply in this case), F-C on the left side and it should come out to be flush with the front of the doors/drawers, correct?

Correct, - - and although it's hard to explain, - - and sometimes a 'judgement' call for each different situation, - - for instance, where I have an F-C cab with a wall on one side and a wall-cab on the other, - - I would use full end panels 'extended' the 3/4" all the way up on both sides of the pantry, - - giving your pantry it's own 'definition', - - at the fridge I only go as high as the bottom of the 'bridge-cab' (over the fridge), - - then I 'extend' the BOTTOM of that cabinet the 3/4", - - in other words, - - pantries get 'framed' up the sides, - - bridge cabs get 'framed' on the bottom.

In another case, if the bridge-cab goes to the wall, - - you would also frame the 'wall-end' of the bridge-cab (which, by rights, would be a floor to ceiling 'end-panel' serving both fridge and cab above).

End -panels against the wall look better if they're 'away' anywhere between 3/4" and 1 1/4" (from the wall), (which not only allows for wall 'variations', but also provides a nice 'shadow-line'), - - then you use a recessed filler 'scribed' to the wall (and recessed 3/4").

Hope this helps.

 

[Tom R]

The pantry box will be 25" deep + 3/4" doors for a total around 25 3/4". The left side of this pantry will have a joint showing between the lower (34 3/4" tall) and the upper (58 3/4" tall), the right side joint will be covered by the countertop. Now acorrding to Euro styling I am to put a panel (ply in this case), F-C on the left side and it should come out to be flush with the front of the doors/drawers, correct?

Now isn't that going to make the cabinet look off balanced? Having a "framed" look on one side but not the other?

If I'm understanding you correctly, - - I would have full length end-panels on both the left and right of this pantry and let the counter-top just 'butt-scribe' into the one on the right.

IMO, - - your 'pantry' would look much better 'reversed', - - the 'lower' being 58 3/4", - - and the upper being 34 3/4", - - I'd avoid having the door plane fall in line with the counter-plane, - - 'step-pattern' theory of differing materials, - - plus a 'pantry-standard' is almost 'closet-like' doors.

 

[Tom R]

We'd also build the carcasses as 'boxes' only, - - the 'kick-boxes' would be built as 'units', - - but as few as possible.

This way you install all the kick-boxes first, - - nice and level, and scribed to floor, - - then the cab-boxes go right on top. Faster over-all, - - and no 'kick-seams' between cabs.