Found this, but having trouble finding backup. And unless it was made retroactive, how can it be enforced? I would ask him for backup.

 

As far as I know that has always been in the code. 100 sf and a closet are the requirements for a bedroom.

 

Actually ... according to the 2018 IRC the minimum size is 70 sf and a closet is not required. I hope you can prove me wrong by pasting a clip that shows otherwise.

 

Home inspectors have 0% authority

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Home inspectors have 0% authority

Bingo. Any "violation" they 'find' merely becomes a negotiation point.

 

If I recall the first GFCI requirement was back in the late 70's. We are 50 years later. Most houses have replaced receptacles several times, the code does state that when replaced they must be upgraded. With regard to CO2, and smoke..no hard wiring is required (most of the new ones last 10 years). However, when a remodel takes place with a permit they still require the upgrade to hard wired three wire system for both sensors. That is a PERMIT issue not a sale issue.
However, remember that one reason these upgrades are required is INSURANCE refuses to insure so no lending can take place. The Insurance requirement TRUMPS the code. as it is a COMMERCIAL requirement.
I do not believe that even in the Bay Area there is a requirement to upgrade unless a permit for other upgrades is issued.
For sure not 20 years ago and I doubt it today.

Some of the town's around here inspect multifamilies periodically for life safety, and you'll get fined until you do the upgrades on what ever schedule they approve.

Hard wired, battery back up, interconnected smokes required and CO detectors.

 

Some of the town's around here inspect multifamilies periodically for life safety, and you'll get fined until you do the upgrades on what ever schedule they approve.

Hard wired, battery back up, interconnected smokes required and CO detectors.

I jut noticed you are from a blue state. A state where I believe they had inspections annually by a tax collector who assessed value of furnishings in your home and taxed you. Until it was determined to be an unlawful search under the Constitution. I bet you have to have a special license to rent half of a duplex..the license then allows entry into the property the intent being to violate the constitution, unreasonable search.
Almost the same as the annual tax on goods in stores by almost every state. On tax day we used to land all the tires from our tire shops into rented trucks and place them on the road. They were not in stock and not on the property. We saved tens of thousands in taxes every year. Until it the tax was eliminated as it was a double tax.
I get that there need to be some controls and safety, however there is a limit and entering my property to inspect without a warrant is the limit, period. I chased three armed bandits with fake badges (Local Sheriff Deputies) out of my backyard one day. I actually called them armed bandits with fake badges and told them I was going in to get my rifle and come out and kill these bandits. They RAN from my property. It was all on body cam and they had already violated my rights by even entering the property. ROFL.

 

 

I don’t believe code requires a closet for a room to be a bedroom. A bedroom must meet a minimum square footage, and egress requirements.

I believe the closet thing is something that they claim because miss information has been passed from person to person that the bedroom requires a closet.

I bet when press they couldn’t produce a code or official document that states a closet is required.

 

I don’t believe code requires a closet for a room to be a bedroom. A bedroom must meet a minimum square footage, and egress requirements.

I believe the closet thing is something that they claim because miss information has been passed from person to person that the bedroom requires a closet.

I bet when press they couldn’t produce a code or official document that states a closet is required.

But also remember it would have to have ben required when the house was built, and not now. Many times these inspectors go haywire when something does not meet todays code and the house is 50 years old. I see it all the time when they say more outlets are needed in the kitchen for example.

 

IRC and IBC have nothing to say about it. Individual states and AHJs are the ones putting in the requirement.

Up here, not required by the state, but included in some town's ordinances. Florida is probably the same. Looks like no state level requirements there, so it would be local only.

 

Ask the inspector to provide the reference, i.e. what paragraph of what code he claims is being violated.

 

... from the time the house was built or the last time that specific room was substantially altered.

It should be grandfathered in.

 

Not only that, it's my understanding that HI's are specifically trained NOT to cite code violations as such, since they have no training or certification in code interpretation. They can say something MAY be a violation, but are never supposed to say outright that it IS.

Rather telling that the HI contract almost always refers to the inspection report as opinion.

 

The problem is that he is using a boiler plate PROGRAM that is spitting out lies and then he comments. The program MUST know the difference or it is not doing the job. Example, let's say there is knob and tube wiring. Ok...it is legal and still considered safe as long as the wiring has not degraded. However, he can say that MOST insurance underwriters are going to require replacement and upgrade to insure the property. he can not mention CODE at all.

 

Old houses may lack closets. I see plenty that had one added framed on the flat, maybe only drywalled on one side.

 

Check the IRC and see if it defines a "bedroom"......

 

I tried … could not find a definition. That would be too logical.

 

Regardless of what anyone defines as a bedroom personally as a seller or a buyer I wouldn't consider it a bedroom without having a closet. I'd feel like an ass selling it as a bedroom, I'd sell it as potential bedroom.

 

Because I am older than yesterday, it's not shocking how little most of the people responding understand how things work.
Understanding how "grandfathering" works and who applies it is some simple stuff.
So is the role and responsibilities of home inspectors.

 

Dj, it's not clear to me what you are trying to accomplish here.
Are you going to rely on someone's opinion here for an issue with potential legal consequences? Are you (or your friend) going to tell the judge "because some guy on a forum told me so?"
Why not ask the inspector for the code section he claims and/or a local real estate lawyer? Seems simple enough.

 

Dj, it's not clear to me what you are trying to accomplish here.
Are you going to rely on someone's opinion here for an issue with potential legal consequences? Are you (or your friend) going to tell the judge "because some guy on a forum told me so?"
Why not ask the inspector for the code section he claims and/or a local real estate lawyer? Seems simple enough.

I SPECIFICALLY asked if any person her knew the ACTUAL YEAR that the Florida Building Code added a requirement for a closet in a bedroom. That is my question and that is what I need to know. I do know that in 2008 it was NOT a requirement as I was a RE agent and there was no requirement at that time. There is still NO requirement under Federal Lending laws and in most states. I have found the FL statute but in the form I found it, there is no reference as to WHEN the requirement was added. I need that information. Anyone have the FL building code set and can tell me?

 

Damn! Much ado about nothing!

 

I think causing the failure of a contract for 1M is a huge problem. The buyer wanted to have the value dropped 60 K. That makes the fraudulent statement that caused it worth 180 K in this state. Plus the loss of $$$ in holding costs.

 

Seems to me with that kind of money involved you could/should have a real estate lawyer give legal opinion.
If you take it upon yourself to decide what is the legal number of bedrooms, are you prepared to accept liability for your opinion?

 

1) Check the local code to see if that's where the requirement comes from, and local supercedes state.

2) Determine if the code allows grandfathering or not. IRC applies only when something is being built, for instance, but NFPA 101 applies to any existing buildings, and drives a lot of upgrades.

If local code just says it must have a closet, that's it, most likely no grandfathering.

Building codes deal with design and build. Other codes deal with all structures, even existing.

 

IF local code says the building must be 12 ft above mean high tide then in order to sell you have to raise the house? NOPE. That is NOT how things work and with good reason. The code is actually Florida Building Code and was place in some strange area not related, it included a definition of bedroom. I just need to know the date that was initiated.

 

Joe, the problem with discussing local statutes is that they are local

In my state there is no home inspector license so there are no standards and anybody can call himself a home inspector.

 

Joe, the problem with discussing local statutes is that they are local

In my state there is no home inspector license so there are no standards and anybody can call himself a home inspector.

I hear you but those states that do not license inspections do adopt standards from one of the two home inspection organizations.
RE Agents and knowing buyers select certified inspectors to do the inspections.
Both certification organizations operate under very similar standards of practice.

 

All kinds of factors come into play. HUD appraisal standards require some if the life safety to be current, for instance .

Insurance companies have their own requirements as well.

 

Buy one of these and places it in the room screwed to the wall.

 

Call it a “unique vintage bedchamber” and raise the price. Maybe go to a local antique store and buy an armoire for staging.

 

some towns you cant have a third floor bedroom, and it cannot be grandfathered in

Also since Sandy there are some areas where the homes must be raised 10 feet, no CO will be given until its raised

 

I would be curious to know the reason for a closet requirement. People have done just fine for thousands of years with armoires and similar storage furniture. And still do in most of the world. And not just poor people. If you go to Ikea's bedroom storage section, they have many freestanding closets that are more elaborate (and some bigger) than a small bedroom built-in closet.

 

Install a free standing and you have an instant closet

 

Dj, love your political rant but your red state requires closets and my blue state doesn't, so not sure where you're going with that...

 

I got two words for ya-

Arm-war


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So......does my house from 1854 that does not have closets now has no bedrooms???

Oh my where am I to sleep?

And if I generally fall asleep on my chair in front of the TV, does that make my living room a bedroom?

The electrical code did change their terminology, or the use of the word bedroom, to sleeping area. This way they no longer had to play with semantics. The court would need to figure it out.
Smoke detector required in all sleeping areas.....

So, the inspector giving ce classes, said when in doubt throw up another detector.

Here you have to add, the required detectors battery or hardwired, upon transfer of property, or any electric permit.

Hardwired interconnected are required in the area for the permit and any adjacent area. Bedroom next to bedroom and possible hallway ....

Unless it's just a service upgrade.

Twenty years ago we were adding electric baseboard to second floor bedrooms here upon property sales. Bedrooms had no heat. Some one required heat in bedrooms at that time. Not certain FHA, HUD or o local.