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Hi All,a

It has been a while since I have been around here. I guess business / busyness has gotten the better of me.

Anyway, I installed a 12' folding exterior door for a good customer of mine. While I was there punching out the project today, I met another contractor that my customer hired to redo the flooring throughout his first floor. Seemed like a good guy and he has been in the business for 35 years (according to him).

I couldn't help but notice how he was going about the process of installing the new hardwood. There will be new bamboo hardwood throughout the first floor of the home (homeowner purchased from Lumber Liquidators I think). The contractor in question is adding 7/16 osb in the areas where there is existing carpet to bring the FF level up to match the existing tile. He is then putting a masonry type skim coat over the existing ceramic tile (18x18). Then he is gluing the bamboo product (5/8" probably) down to the skim coat / osb sheathing.

This seems WAY wrong to me. If I were doing it, the existing tile would be gone. IMHO, the glue for the hardwood product is bonding to the skim coat and is only as good as the bond of the skim coat to the tile. It seems like a warranty nightmare.

Anyway, what do you guys think. Everyone I have talked to thinks this is a bad idea. Maybe I am wrong. Has anyone done this before? Do you think I should say something to my customer? It is not necessarily my place, but I don't want him to get screwed either. Thanks for the input.

Epic0428
 

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Wow. My relationship with the customer would make the difference. Most of my customers, I get to know pretty well and consider friends. In that case I probably would say something. If I didn't know the customer I would mind my own business. Keep in mind you are getting ready to stir things up.
Somebody needs to, but do you want to be in the middle of it?
The skim coat over the tile, is it extremely thin or 1/8" or more. I have seen a lot of floor covering guys use "feather patch" on existing vinyl. It fills in the low areas (texture of the vinyl) and then they go over the top with the new vinyl. Works really well.
 

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Hi All,a

It has been a while since I have been around here. I guess business / busyness has gotten the better of me.

Anyway, I installed a 12' folding exterior door for a good customer of mine. While I was there punching out the project today, I met another contractor that my customer hired to redo the flooring throughout his first floor. Seemed like a good guy and he has been in the business for 35 years (according to him).

I couldn't help but notice how he was going about the process of installing the new hardwood. There will be new bamboo hardwood throughout the first floor of the home (homeowner purchased from Lumber Liquidators I think). The contractor in question is adding 7/16 osb in the areas where there is existing carpet to bring the FF level up to match the existing tile. He is then putting a masonry type skim coat over the existing ceramic tile (18x18). Then he is gluing the bamboo product (5/8" probably) down to the skim coat / osb sheathing.

This seems WAY wrong to me. If I were doing it, the existing tile would be gone. IMHO, the glue for the hardwood product is bonding to the skim coat and is only as good as the bond of the skim coat to the tile. It seems like a warranty nightmare.

Anyway, what do you guys think. Everyone I have talked to thinks this is a bad idea. Maybe I am wrong. Has anyone done this before? Do you think I should say something to my customer? It is not necessarily my place, but I don't want him to get screwed either. Thanks for the input.

Epic0428
Cant say that i would do this..but you can tile over tile and glue over tile.

Thin set don't care what side it sticks to.

However it would be recommended to scarify the tile..how much depends on the tile.

He is probably using self leveler to make a flatter surface. Defer to thin set statement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
FF=Finished Floor. In other words, he is using the OSB to bring the areas where there was existing carpet up to the level of the existing ceramic tile.

I don't know what leveling product he was using, but it is less than 1/8". I could not see any of the tile showing through though.

I have a hard time believing that the thinset / leveling product / whatever would bond well enough to not cause problems down the road. I don't have a great deal of experience with flooring products though so that is why I am looking for input from others.
 

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FF=Finished Floor. In other words, he is using the OSB to bring the areas where there was existing carpet up to the level of the existing ceramic tile.

I don't know what leveling product he was using, but it is less than 1/8". I could not see any of the tile showing through though.

I have a hard time believing that the thinset / leveling product / whatever would bond well enough to not cause problems down the road. I don't have a great deal of experience with flooring products though so that is why I am looking for input from others.
Levelers go from 1"-0...whats so hard to believe?if they didnt bond well enough to not cause problems theres a sh itload of tile out there ready to fail
 

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Don't really know why he would float the joints for the glue down. I really doubt it would telegraph. Besides, if you trowel it right the adhesive would fill the void anyway.

In the installers defense the glue forms a monolithic sheet that in small areas (1") wont hold down much, but across a whole floor the bond is pretty amazing. Once a whole board is glued to a flat surface it won't come up without serious leverage (probably greater than the strength of the bamboo's bond to itself).
 

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If it's not part of my contract and there's no interaction with my work, I don't say anything if it's just a matter of "I wouldn't do it like that." If there's a safety question I'll say something, same as anyone. Over time, I've become very unlikely to speak up about quality problems that aren't my direct business - it's messing with another contractor and his relationship with the property owner, and if the owner wanted my opinion, he or she would have paid for me to coordinate the work.
 

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ArtisanRemod said:
Yes I would. If they asked my opinion. It may be possible to bond a bamboo floor to a tile floor. Technically speaking. But it's not a good idea, and I don't see how it can be cheaper. Lazy.
Why isn't it a good idea? and why wouldn't it be cheaper if there's no demo, haul away and labor to demo it?
 

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I've seen more than my share of flooring cluster F's. This is why good flooring contractors don't come cheap which I suspect may be the case here.
 

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Proceeding in that manner you would have to assume the tile was installed correctly (what are the chances), and then on top of that, the leveling compound bonded correctly, and then that the glue for the floor will bond correctly. The only place I would even consider this, and even then I would never guarantee it, would be if there was an asbestos floor under the tile. You won't convince me that the process in question is a sound one. Theres a good chance the guy will bury the dishwasher, and he'll likely have to cut the doors. I've seen it before.
 

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Why isn't it a good idea? and why wouldn't it be cheaper if there's no demo, haul away and labor to demo it?
It's a wash. Demoing floors sucks, but theres good money in it. Leveling compound isn't free, and neither is plywood and the labor required to install it. I could have sold that job my way in 30 seconds after that guy finished his proposal.
 

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Yes I would. If they asked my opinion. It may be possible to bond a bamboo floor to a tile floor. Technically speaking. But it's not a good idea, and I don't see how it can be cheaper. Lazy.
dependent upon size of area and method of time install it can be helluva lot cheaper.

and yes you csn glue to tile..its "may be possible" but is ABSOLUTELY UNDOUBTABLY ACHIEVEABLE" and is in NWFA/NOFMA guideline

let not forget there is a homeowner involved with a 'how can we kep costs down mind frame.
 

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Proceeding in that manner you would have to assume the tile was installed correctly (what are the chances), and then on top of that, the leveling compound bonded correctly, and then that the glue for the floor will bond correctly. The only place I would even consider this, and even then I would never guarantee it, would be if there was an asbestos floor under the tile. You won't convince me that the process in question is a sound one. Theres a good chance the guy will bury the dishwasher, and he'll likely have to cut the doors. I've seen it before.
assue the tile was installed correctly what are the chances?
does everyone suck but you?.no one installs correctly?

ceramic,porcelain and stone are all natural materials that's are installed with the same products you are speaking of.
installed under or on toip makes no difference to the material.

don't believe it?
experiment.

install tile upside down then try to remove it..do it for fun in your garage

to say you wont be convinced is Bull as you were easily convinced buy coffers theory on fastners blowing out plywood plies and losing hold
and now you stock up on 11/2's.

next install go under and look at how much "blow out": actually occurs.

its a personal and arrogant belief at best.
but at the same time doesn't negate nor prove the stple length theories.

my point in this is what the guy is doingabsolutely doable and by deferring to staple theorywhere is the floor going to go?
in tact tile underneath.SLC on top of tile for smooth surface( unnecessary unless of course s a rough surface. then urethane adhesive on top..of course we have gravity.

where do you expect the floor togo to?
because we have beliefs or methods doesn't mean other don't or cant work.

if I didn't try new things and experiment I would never learn nor advance.

I have seen many things work in my life.things I would say NO WAY could that be right.

but fi someone writes in a book and calls it the right wy then as androids we belive its the only way.

bottoline is this..what was spelled out in the OPs post is al in line with guideline installation.
 

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jamestrd said:
assue the tile was installed correctly what are the chances? does everyone suck but you?.no one installs correctly? ceramic,porcelain and stone are all natural materials that's are installed with the same products you are speaking of. installed under or on toip makes no difference to the material. don't believe it? experiment. install tile upside down then try to remove it..do it for fun in your garage to say you wont be convinced is Bull as you were easily convinced buy coffers theory on fastners blowing out plywood plies and losing hold and now you stock up on 11/2's. next install go under and look at how much "blow out": actually occurs. its a personal and arrogant belief at best. but at the same time doesn't negate nor prove the stple length theories. my point in this is what the guy is doingabsolutely doable and by deferring to staple theorywhere is the floor going to go? in tact tile underneath.SLC on top of tile for smooth surface( unnecessary unless of course s a rough surface. then urethane adhesive on top..of course we have gravity. where do you expect the floor togo to? because we have beliefs or methods doesn't mean other don't or cant work. if I didn't try new things and experiment I would never learn nor advance. I have seen many things work in my life.things I would say NO WAY could that be right. but fi someone writes in a book and calls it the right wy then as androids we belive its the only way. bottoline is this..what was spelled out in the OPs post is al in line with guideline installation.
And it won't fall up
 

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The importance of bond strength is usually way overestimated.The assumption that there "must" be some failure down the road because there is floor patch in the equation is extremely misguided. This kind of thinking does nothing good for the end user. It just costs them a ton of money so someone's irrational itch can be scratched.

Try this. Take some cheap patch like plani, mix it with admix, put it on some tile and let it dry. Now try to get it off. Hell, try to clean the crap off of a trowel, for goodness sake.
 
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