[richpuer]

For spraying conversion varnish or waterborne lacquer what would be a good affordable setup? I was thinking about getting the graco PRO x7 airless sprayer.

But then I saw the graco pro finish II 395 air assisted airless. The price difference is almost 2000$. Ugh.

What's an air assisted airless? That makes no sense to me. Do I need it to spray clears?

Also I want a machine that can also spray acrylic paints and/or regular paints as we'll so it can also be multipurpose use.

Any thoughts? I'm totally new to airless stuff so I want something simple and effective yet easy to use and clean.


Also one very confusing subject is psi. Most clear coatings say to spray around 25-40psi. We'll the airless is putting out 3000 psi. That seems a lot higher than what I need.

Currently I'm using a husky hvlp cup gun with a air compressor. This is most annoying and delivers highly inconsistent results. Takes forever to setup and wastes a lot of time.

Or is it as simple as buying the cheap $500 machine then getting the fine finish tips? But how about the psi? Can it be adjusted down that low?

 

[CarpenterSFO]

Check out the Fuji HVLP systems. Conversion varnish, waterborne clear finishes, latex finishes on doors and trims, lacquers, anything solvent or water based short of gel coat, in a small, portable package. You can hook it up with a gravity gun, siphon, or pressure pot. If you use the 3M PPS accessories it doesn't matter if it's gravity or siphon, you can spray at any angle, and cleaning becomes trivial.

I don't know that the Graco X7 makes sense for conversion varnish or small finish items, though - there's an awful lot of wetted surface to run solvent through to clean it, and I think you'd have to have some special spraying skills to lay down a cabinet-grade coat of conversion varnish or other clear coat with a sprayer with that much power. I do use an older small Graco for walls, ceilings, and the occasional door. But my Fuji gets used for everything else.

 

[richpuer]

Check out the Fuji HVLP systems. Conversion varnish, waterborne clear finishes, latex finishes on doors and trims, lacquers, anything solvent or water based short of gel coat, in a small, portable package. You can hook it up with a gravity gun, siphon, or pressure pot. If you use the 3M PPS accessories it doesn't matter if it's gravity or siphon, you can spray at any angle, and cleaning becomes trivial.

I don't know that the Graco X7 makes sense for conversion varnish or small finish items, though - there's an awful lot of wetted surface to run solvent through to clean it, and I think you'd have to have some special spraying skills to lay down a cabinet-grade coat of conversion varnish or other clear coat with a sprayer with that much power. I do use an older small Graco for walls, ceilings, and the occasional door. But my Fuji gets used for everything else.

Thanks . The Fuji looks interesting. How do you set the psi?

Also gravity or siphon?

Semi pro 2 model sufficient?

 

[tjbnwi]

Fugi Q4.

Gravity, unless you're adding a pressure pot.

I prefer the XPc gun over the T-70, again, unless you're adding a pot. Get the 3M PPS system for which ever gun you choose.

Order all the nozzles and air caps for the gun. Nice to have on hand.

You throttle the pressure with the valve on the end of the hose at the handle of the gun.

Tom

 

[richpuer]

What is a pressure pot? Do I need it?

 

[CarpenterSFO]

If it's not clear from the marketing info, the deal with the Fuji is that you're buying a system that includes the gun, hoses, and a small turbine unit - about the size of a milk-crate - that supplies the air. The air comes out of the turbine somewhere around 10 PSI - the gun and other bits are made for that pressure level; there are adjustments on the gun. A standard, compressor-driven gun won't work on that system.

A pressure pot is a paint supply connected to the gun by a hose, rather than have a cup attached to the hose. You run a compressor to the pot, which drives paint from the pot through the hose to the gun. You'd typically use that if you're spraying a lot of paint - walls, ceilings, a bunch of doors, etc. If you're not starting with that sort of painting, you could start without it. Here's a vendor's page with video: http://www.hvlpsales.com/pressurepot.html

Gravity v. siphon? Tom prefers the gravity. I started with the siphon and have been happy with it; the 3M PPS system has kept me happy with it, as I can spray at any angle now. Tom's definitely the expert - you probably can't go wrong listening to him.

I have the Q4; I don't know about the semi-pro.

 

[pinwheel]

We've got a titan 440 with fine finish tips for big jobs. I turn it down as low as possible & use a 208 & 308 tip. Small jobs, we use a gravity feed hvlp gun. I'd caution using the same airless unit for paint & clear. The clears are hot & will release leftover paint into your finish.

There was a definate learning curve with using the airless units, but we're getting pretty good results

 

[richpuer]

I just ordered the Q4, and added 1.8mm tip for primers. Thanks Bob

 

[richpuer]

Fugi Q4.

Gravity, unless you're adding a pressure pot.

I prefer the XPc gun over the T-70, again, unless you're adding a pot. Get the 3M PPS system for which ever gun you choose.

Order all the nozzles and air caps for the gun. Nice to have on hand.

You throttle the pressure with the valve on the end of the hose at the handle of the gun.

Tom

If it's not clear from the marketing info, the deal with the Fuji is that you're buying a system that includes the gun, hoses, and a small turbine unit - about the size of a milk-crate - that supplies the air. The air comes out of the turbine somewhere around 10 PSI - the gun and other bits are made for that pressure level; there are adjustments on the gun. A standard, compressor-driven gun won't work on that system.

A pressure pot is a paint supply connected to the gun by a hose, rather than have a cup attached to the hose. You run a compressor to the pot, which drives paint from the pot through the hose to the gun. You'd typically use that if you're spraying a lot of paint - walls, ceilings, a bunch of doors, etc. If you're not starting with that sort of painting, you could start without it. Here's a vendor's page with video: http://www.hvlpsales.com/pressurepot.html

Gravity v. siphon? Tom prefers the gravity. I started with the siphon and have been happy with it; the 3M PPS system has kept me happy with it, as I can spray at any angle now. Tom's definitely the expert - you probably can't go wrong listening to him.

I have the Q4; I don't know about the semi-pro.

I have a question, when spraying like paint acrylics or primer, and then moving on to spray the clear after, is it a pain to clean out the inside of the gun so you dont end up blasting out bits and pieces of old paint with the finish material?

i had a husky gun and i did this and became quite apprehensive, had white paint flying out with my conversion varnish and had to strip it and start over. IT was crusted all along the inside with white paint. i tried forever and couldnt get 100% of the old paint out of the gun, ended up having to trash it

is it advisable to buy two guns?? and use one solely for paints and one for finishing clears? or is this gun pretty much easy to clean and get everything off

 

[CarpenterSFO]

I have a question, when spraying like paint acrylics or primer, and then moving on to spray the clear after, is it a pain to clean out the inside of the gun so you dont end up blasting out bits and pieces of old paint with the finish material?

i had a husky gun and i did this and became quite apprehensive, had white paint flying out with my conversion varnish and had to strip it and start over. IT was crusted all along the inside with white paint. i tried forever and couldnt get 100% of the old paint out of the gun, ended up having to trash it

is it advisable to buy two guns?? and use one solely for paints and one for finishing clears? or is this gun pretty much easy to clean and get everything off

Good decision, Rich.

They're very easy to clean. I only have one gun and don't have any problem with that.

Ease of cleaning is one great reason to add the the PPS system. It's a cup into which you put a disposable liner and cap. You put your finish into the cup, snap on the cap (which has a filter in it, which is very nice), and spray. When you're done you toss the cap and liner and have a little additional cleaning up to do, but much less than with a traditional cup.

After you figure out some new technique - you aim to whoosh on a very wet coat - you should like the Q4. Come on here and ask questions if you have them. I think there are a number of us who use the Fujis and like them a bunch.

Edit: and I think Tom has some youtube videos with his Q4.

 

[carzie]

Am a little late to add my 2 cents to this topic but oh well here goes. I've used Graco,Cap Spray and Fuji. The xpc gun by fuji is a good unit the turbine? I have a Q4 Gold and the turbine starts to get angry ( it changes tone and starts to vibrate) after about 20 minutes of running. I've contacted Fuji and was told this unit is not meant to be run for more then 40 minutes at a time, I am sending the turbine back for repairs asap, seams there is some kind of defect. If you plan on running it for more the 40 minutes be ready for the breaker to pop. I find the hose and connections are cheap, all plastic air valve at the gun that fell apart after about 40 hours of use. Best turbine I've used is Graco 9.5, great air filtration and will run all day and the hose and fittings are much better. I guess it depends on how much and how long you plan on using it for. Good luck and happy spraying.

I have several guns with one being dedicated to clears for the reasons stated. One thing never mentioned is the dangers of vapors from non water based products. If you plan on spraying oil, solvent, shellac based products make sure you have proper air movement, ie an explosion proof fan extracting the vapors, or it could be deadly.

 

[CarpenterSFO]

Am a little late to add my 2 cents to this topic but oh well here goes. I've used Graco,Cap Spray and Fuji. The xpc gun by fuji is a good unit the turbine? I have a Q4 Gold and the turbine starts to get angry ( it changes tone and starts to vibrate) after about 20 minutes of running. I've contacted Fuji and was told this unit is not meant to be run for more then 40 minutes at a time, I am sending the turbine back for repairs asap, seams there is some kind of defect. If you plan on running it for more the 40 minutes be ready for the breaker to pop. I find the hose and connections are cheap, all plastic air valve at the gun that fell apart after about 40 hours of use. Best turbine I've used is Graco 9.5, great air filtration and will run all day and the hose and fittings are much better. I guess it depends on how much and how long you plan on using it for. Good luck and happy spraying.

I have several guns with one being dedicated to clears for the reasons stated. One thing never mentioned is the dangers of vapors from non water based products. If you plan on spraying oil, solvent, shellac based products make sure you have proper air movement, ie an explosion proof fan extracting the vapors, or it could be deadly.

I've been lucky with mine. Though it's not really meant for it, I've used my Q4 to paint walls and ceilings, and one full house exterior with wood siding. Unlike an airless, yes, the turbine runs full time. I probably just not a good enough painter to keep it running for more than 20 minutes or a half hour at a time. So maybe I've just dodged the bullet.

Yes, that plastic valve is cheap, but it's held up fine for me.

The Fuji gun hasn't given me problems switching between finishes (the way some less easily cleaned guns might) but I'm certainly aware of the possibility and try to stage things so I'm not switching back and forth between finishes.

Yes, you're sure right about the solvent-based finishes.

 

[tjbnwi]

Am a little late to add my 2 cents to this topic but oh well here goes. I've used Graco,Cap Spray and Fuji. The xpc gun by fuji is a good unit the turbine? I have a Q4 Gold and the turbine starts to get angry ( it changes tone and starts to vibrate) after about 20 minutes of running. I've contacted Fuji and was told this unit is not meant to be run for more then 40 minutes at a time, I am sending the turbine back for repairs asap, seams there is some kind of defect. If you plan on running it for more the 40 minutes be ready for the breaker to pop. I find the hose and connections are cheap, all plastic air valve at the gun that fell apart after about 40 hours of use. Best turbine I've used is Graco 9.5, great air filtration and will run all day and the hose and fittings are much better. I guess it depends on how much and how long you plan on using it for. Good luck and happy spraying.

I have several guns with one being dedicated to clears for the reasons stated. One thing never mentioned is the dangers of vapors from non water based products. If you plan on spraying oil, solvent, shellac based products make sure you have proper air movement, ie an explosion proof fan extracting the vapors, or it could be deadly.

I just ran my Q4 God for 5 hours without turning it off (to lazy to bend down to hit the switch). In the last 3 weeks I probably put 75 hours on it. It never skipped a beat. It does change sound when you are off the trigger. That is normal on a non-bypass gun. Change the intake filter, see what happens. The only time I've ever had an issue is when I forget to service the intake filter.

The question was asked if you need a pressure pot and what it is. A pressure pot allows you to use larger volumes of fluid without stopping to fill the cup. I have 2 -2.5 gallon pots, one with a mixer and one without. My pressure source to the pot is my Rolair Jc-10. The Q4 supplies atomization air to the air cap. Do you need one--that depends on what you're shooting and how much. I'd suggest staring with a PPS system and go from there. The PPS makes clean up very easy.

I agree with crazie, be very aware of the fumes from solvent based products.

Tom

 

[Flag ship]

I have a question, when spraying like paint acrylics or primer, and then moving on to spray the clear after, is it a pain to clean out the inside of the gun so you dont end up blasting out bits and pieces of old paint with the finish material?

i had a husky gun and i did this and became quite apprehensive, had white paint flying out with my conversion varnish and had to strip it and start over. IT was crusted all along the inside with white paint. i tried forever and couldnt get 100% of the old paint out of the gun, ended up having to trash it

is it advisable to buy two guns?? and use one solely for paints and one for finishing clears? or is this gun pretty much easy to clean and get everything off

For the cab shop I have 3 guns for each finish 1.stains 2.clears 3. paints. I dont think you need 3 but two one for paint one for clears is a good move. I also use the turbine unit when the air/humidity levels are high. That will effect your finish quality. I pref. a air deliv. system ie comp. most of the time with in line air dryer and flow controls at the gun.
The air less units above work well for bigger jobs but wouldn't use them for solvent products. That's just my view.

 

[carzie]

When I spoke with the Fuji rep it sounded like their may be an issue with my unit, when I described what was happening he intermediately sent me a return shipping label and said the motor assembly would be replaced. I run primer, color and clears sometimes 2 colors at the same time, tis the reason for so many guns. I didn't mean to step on any toes, was just pointing out my experience with Fuji and others, if Fuji works for you then fantastic, for me I'm looking for another turbine just in case the repaired one is the same.

 

[CarpenterSFO]

...I didn't mean to step on any toes, was just pointing out my experience....

Don't worry about stepping on toes.

 

[richpuer]

I've been lucky with mine. Though it's not really meant for it, I've used my Q4 to paint walls and ceilings, and one full house exterior with wood siding. Unlike an airless, yes, the turbine runs full time. I probably just not a good enough painter to keep it running for more than 20 minutes or a half hour at a time. So maybe I've just dodged the bullet.

Yes, that plastic valve is cheap, but it's held up fine for me.

The Fuji gun hasn't given me problems switching between finishes (the way some less easily cleaned guns might) but I'm certainly aware of the possibility and try to stage things so I'm not switching back and forth between finishes.

Yes, you're sure right about the solvent-based finishes.

Thanks for the Rec, just got the fuji and tried it last night. it sprays wonderfully coming from a husky gun lol.

i have a question about cleaning. the manual says just to spray solvent through it and pretty much thats it. but the online manual says to take all these things apart.

is it necessary? i just sprayed wb clears and rinsed the cup with acetone and sprayed some through after. Do i need to take it apart?

also the manual says not to remove the cup as the threads are sealed from the factory...is that right?

 

[carzie]

When I clean my guns I start by putting a small amount of thinners in the cup n swish it around and dump it. I then fill the cup about half way with thinners and run it through the gun for about 30 seconds, I dump that and repeat. My guns are siphon so it'll be different for gravity, I then wash the lip of the cup with thinners and pull the diaphragm gasket wash it and then blow out the siphon tube (trigger pulled and full on for volume) cup and diaphragm with compressed air. It might be excessive but I've never had a gun that wouldn't work after I cleaned it.

 

[CarpenterSFO]

Thanks for the Rec, just got the fuji and tried it last night. it sprays wonderfully coming from a husky gun lol.

i have a question about cleaning. the manual says just to spray solvent through it and pretty much thats it. but the online manual says to take all these things apart.

is it necessary? i just sprayed wb clears and rinsed the cup with acetone and sprayed some through after. Do i need to take it apart?

also the manual says not to remove the cup as the threads are sealed from the factory...is that right?

I'm glad you got it; I hope it's still working out. I take my gun apart after every use. The Fuji guns come apart very easily, and with the PPS system cleanup is even easier.

 

[mako1]

I have owned a few Fuji guns and was happy with all but one.They had a bad design several years ago.Can't remember the model number but it was an hvlp conversion gun.Had a rod in it tah would keep bending.Customer service was good and I've been happy with all of their products I've used since then Currently using an Accuspray and like it better.