[txgencon]

Code guru help.

While visiting our daughter near Aledo, Texas, I saw something I'd never seen or even thought of before. My SIL and I walked down the street to a new house under construction. The electrical was being roughed. The electrician was in the process of connecting the bond from the main panel to the ufer. He stripped all the insulation off an 8' piece of 12/3 w/ground and attached each of the four bare wires to one of four screws he had put on the side of a stud (about 1/2" apart). Then, he straightened them out chucked them into his cordless drill. Ran the drill and basically ended up with a four stranded wire. He used that for his EGC. I tried to look it up when I got home and see if anything would prohibit this. I couldn't find anything. But I figure there's a rule somewhere that I'm missing.

I did note that 4 #12 is pretty much the equivalent of a #3.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Totally and utterly wrong and HACK!

 

[Tinstaafl]

What one man calls hack work, another calls field expediency. :laughing:

Gotta admit, I don't know of any code that would actually forbid such a thing.

 

[txgencon]

I ran into another electrician this morning at breakfast and asked him if he'd ever heard/done such a thing. He said if that was all it took to finish a job and not make another trip, he would and has done it. He even related one experience where he told his guy to do that and the guy didn't understand fully. He simply twisted the ends of some 12/3 w/g together and used that and left the bulk of the cable in the sheath. Either the inspector (City of Dallas) didn't notice or didn't have a problem with it as he got a green tag on it.

I'm going to ask the Chief about it next time I'm there.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Gotta admit, I don't know of any code that would actually forbid such a thing.

I do. If code calls for #4 you need at least #4. Twisting three or four #12's does NOT equal #4. In fact, you could call it paralleling, which would be expressly forbidden at this gauge.

 

[CBJenkins]

You have to use the wire that is tested and rated for the purpose it's intended for. Not that it isn't sufficient and will work, you got to have the papers to back it now a days.

Maybe you could say that the Circular Mills of the wires used meets the circular mills of the AWG wire he was aiming for and is code sufficient? I would have to read up on this to see if it conflicts with anything.

 

[Fault Current]

Hack work

Make your own stranded. No electrician would ever do hack work like that. Just a roper and installer not an electrician. Compounded by dumb inspector.

Once saw a job where the guy had a 100 ft run of 3/0 copper and ran short. So he stripped 19 100 ft lengths of #12 copper, twisted them with a drill, and used a couple dozen rolls of cheap tape to create his own 3/0.

It's Chinatown Jake....:sad:

 

[MTN REMODEL LLC]

Code guru help.

While visiting our daughter near Aledo, Texas, I saw something I'd never seen or even thought of before. My SIL and I walked down the street to a new house under construction. The electrical was being roughed. The electrician was in the process of connecting the bond from the main panel to the ufer. He stripped all the insulation off an 8' piece of 12/3 w/ground and attached each of the four bare wires to one of four screws he had put on the side of a stud (about 1/2" apart). Then, he straightened them out chucked them into his cordless drill. Ran the drill and basically ended up with a four stranded wire. He used that for his EGC. I tried to look it up when I got home and see if anything would prohibit this. I couldn't find anything. But I figure there's a rule somewhere that I'm missing.

I did note that 4 #12 is pretty much the equivalent of a #3.

No big deal.... but that's not the EGC...

 

[txgencon]

No big deal.... but that's not the EGC...

You're right.

 

[smalpierre]

I do. If code calls for #4 you need at least #4. Twisting three or four #12's does NOT equal #4. In fact, you could call it paralleling, which would be expressly forbidden at this gauge.

Not really paralleling. That would be if you left the insulation on so the wire wasn't bonded - like a previous post where the helper misunderstood and only twisted the ends of the wire together.

Still it's not using wire for it's rated purpose and I'd agree that it's wrong by code. It's not twisted under factory controlled and tested conditions. Not the same even if you have the same number of the same size strands.