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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got a call yesterday from a man asking if i could re-tile his shower floor :blink:

I asked him if it needed to be done because it was leaking, he said yes. I set an appointment to come look at it, he said he had 3 other showers in the house and it was not urgent.

His story expanded a bit more before we got off the phone, he said he had a plumber come look at it and he told him that because of the shape he recommended a fiberglass pan over a pvc pan. I briefly told him about the newer technology of bonded waterproofing, both sheet and liquid, and their benefits.

He also told me his custom leaking marble shower was only 8 years old. what a shame.
 

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If a premade base is desired---there are some nice cast onyx ones that look rather deluxe-----call local counter top manufacturers---the ones that make cast vanity tops also make the cast shower bases.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Mike, that custom base is a great idea, however...

The fiberglass pan I was talking about is for under a mud bed and under tile. Basicly a moulded in place fiberglass liner in place of pvc or chloraloy.

The alternatives I was suggesting were top membranes rather than bladder like builds. Depending on the specifics, will use hydroban or kerdi.
 

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They are just starting to be used in your area, there is a guy in western Morris county who does them. There are some plumbers who now will only use fiberglass done by him. My electrician told me about them a few years ago and now I have seen more and more.
No problem with seams or folds.

He said you may not be able to do it in an occupied house due to the smell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No, this is not the finished product. This is fiberglass installed over the sub flooring and rapped over the curb and up the wall such as typical with PVC under a mud bed a lot of builders will use a fiberglass guy to do the liner showers that are not Square / rectangle shape
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
They are, in my opinion, superior to PVC liners. I have done a few in the past prior to learning about the newer technologies such as kerdi and hydro ban.

One of the only down sides of the fiberglass is the stink of the resin. Other than that, it is a great bladder method.
 

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I don't really see the appeal of using a pan or poly below the mortar bed anymore. Surface membranes are just too effective and easy. I just tried out my first foam pan and there are definitely pros/cons to them which would lead me to choose one way over the other.

Is there really a benefit to the older mud bed method vs a mud bed with surface membrane? What are they using to waterproof the walls?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The ones I saw did not have a preslope, just flat. Any idea on cost?
A preslope is needed for flood inspection, it is on the GC or builder to have a pre-slope built within the shower area prior to any method. As far as cost, the material alone is costly... fiberglass cloth and a bucket of resin... then the skilled labor to install it. I can do Kerdi for about the same price, and there are many added benefits to kerdi over fiberglass.


I don't really see the appeal of using a pan or poly below the mortar bed anymore. Surface membranes are just too effective and easy. I just tried out my first foam pan and there are definitely pros/cons to them which would lead me to choose one way over the other.

Is there really a benefit to the older mud bed method vs a mud bed with surface membrane? What are they using to waterproof the walls?
I agree, i prefer top membranes, much better build in every way.

The only benifits I can see to older bladder type methods are the cheap price, the general lack of skill needed to install (although we see plenty that were screwed up) and the long term proven track record. Lets face it, these new products are mostly less than 10 years old, no one has seen a 40 year old Kerdi or liquid shower, yet we have demo'd older showers that did not fail (and most had an inch of mud over lath for walls)

as far as waterproofing walls, everyone should be, but not everyone does... this is not on the fiberglass man, that's on the GC or builder or architect to spec. some plastic behind backer, some surface bond, some do nothing and let the tile guy use mastic:whistling
 

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A preslope is needed for flood inspection, it is on the GC or builder to have a pre-slope built within the shower area prior to any method. As far as cost, the material alone is costly... fiberglass cloth and a bucket of resin... then the skilled labor to install it. I can do Kerdi for about the same price, and there are many added benefits to kerdi over fiberglass.

I agree, i prefer top membranes, much better build in every way.

The only benifits I can see to older bladder type methods are the cheap price, the general lack of skill needed to install (although we see plenty that were screwed up) and the long term proven track record. Lets face it, these new products are mostly less than 10 years old, no one has seen a 40 year old Kerdi or liquid shower, yet we have demo'd older showers that did not fail (and most had an inch of mud over lath for walls)

as far as waterproofing walls, everyone should be, but not everyone does... this is not on the fiberglass man, that's on the GC or builder or architect to spec. some plastic behind backer, some surface bond, some do nothing and let the tile guy use mastic:whistling
I don't know if I'd say lack of skill...it's certainly cheap...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I don't know if I'd say lack of skill...it's certainly cheap...
maybe not the best choice of words, but there are cheaters to help the novice. Also, assuming the liner was properly installed, the mud bed could be hacked and it still wouldn't leak. Surface membranes, you would have a hacked slope AND leaky membrane :thumbup:
 
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