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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is one I haven't run across before. The picture shows the ceiling of an old steam shower, the customer wants to put back another custom steam shower in this space.

The decking above the 'ceiling' joists is just that, an exterior deck. It's 2x8s joist for the deck with plywood and torchdown, sleepers and 2x6 decking.

The ceiling of the steam shower was furred down with 2x4s.

What would you do differently in replacing the steam shower here? Other then it being a flat surface above the ceiing joists, I'm second guessing myself how this is really any different then a shingled room above?

The house is 'different' as a good way to describe it, built by a DIYer and I've seen plenty of questionable things already so I don't want to be put in the trick bag on any of this if I can help it.
 

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Lack Of All Trades
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Long as you vent that badboy like never before. To the outside! Fresh air coming in, bad steamy air going out! Ventilation is everything in these steam showers! that is why those tiles fell.. improper venting or not enough cfm in the previous fan system. I would add a larger intake/exhaust fand system!

looks like no mold issues..great.

good luck.
 

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I would want that 2x4 cieling 16'' on center if they are not. Also will the shower have an exhaust fan to clear things out, or a panel above the door that vents. If you go with the exhaust fan, you will need to vent out through that roof area. GMOD
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I forgot to say the reason why the ceiling is all torn out was a copper pipe running through it burst.

(We normally do ceilings in steamers 12" on center)
(new exhaust fan outside the steam shower)
(there was no exhaust fan anywhere near this area before)

Just weird to me to have that exterior deck above this area.
 

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I forgot to say the reason why the ceiling is all torn out was a copper pipe running through it burst.

(We normally do ceilings in steamers 12" on center)
(new exhaust fan outside the steam shower)
(there was no exhaust fan anywhere near this area before)

Just weird to me to have that exterior deck above this area.
in that case, cocoon all the framing and joists above with spray-in-insulation! this is very important! you just opened a whole new ballgame! the deck area MUST BE sealed, Mike!

Otherwise, The pipes will burst again and again!

hehe!

I learned that watching holmes on homes.

seriously, cocoon that B****!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Why do you guys think closed cell foam should be sprayed in that ceiling? As opposed to say exposing it all so that we can seal the rim joists for air penetrations, insulating the rim joists with batts and then the ceiling? Are you thinking there is going to be a condensation problem against the back side of the steam shower ceiling or against the bottom of the deck above? Are you thinking closed cell for the added R-value?

The ceiling is at 88" now rough to rough, as it sits now would end up about 84-83" by the time the pan is poured and tiled and ceiling is sloped and tiled.
 

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Why do you guys think closed cell foam should be sprayed in that ceiling? As opposed to say exposing it all so that we can seal the rim joists for air penetrations, insulating the rim joists with batts and then the ceiling? Are you thinking there is going to be a condensation problem against the back side of the steam shower ceiling or against the bottom of the deck above? Are you thinking closed cell for the added R-value?

The ceiling is at 88" now rough to rough, as it sits now would end up about 84-83" by the time the pan is poured and tiled and ceiling is sloped and tiled.
My guess is that the condinsation will occur on the cold side of any insulation barrier you put up (so I'm concerned the deck above).

My first thought would be two layers of insulation with an air gap between. But ceiling height will be an issue. And to be perfectly honest - I'm not sure that would solve the problem.
 

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Sean
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Why do you guys think closed cell foam should be sprayed in that ceiling? As opposed to say exposing it all so that we can seal the rim joists for air penetrations, insulating the rim joists with batts and then the ceiling? Are you thinking there is going to be a condensation problem against the back side of the steam shower ceiling or against the bottom of the deck above? Are you thinking closed cell for the added R-value?

The ceiling is at 88" now rough to rough, as it sits now would end up about 84-83" by the time the pan is poured and tiled and ceiling is sloped and tiled.
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0404-roof-design

See the two best options - Figure 11 & 12 - the science behind it is above

While your system might work (not sure on your climate area or how the rest of the area is done) all it takes is for someone to not properly seal, improperly install, or any other little thing to cause issues

The R Value while it is a nice selling feature, doesn't tell half the story for how well a product will work - condensation & preventing frozen pipes were my two biggest concerns

Edit: Here is another article on the same subject which might make it a little clearer, and help DaVinci also

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-149-unvented-roof-assemblies-for-all-climates/
 

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I think, this may be an overthink, insulate the underside of the flatroof framing, kraft or foil facing down, if pipes must run in the cieling, keep them below the insulation, insulate the pipes, then build the shower, GMOD.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0404-roof-design

See the two best options - Figure 11 & 12 - the science behind it is above

While your system might work (not sure on your climate area or how the rest of the area is done) all it takes is for someone to not properly seal, improperly install, or any other little thing to cause issues

The R Value while it is a nice selling feature, doesn't tell half the story for how well a product will work - condensation & preventing frozen pipes were my two biggest concerns
Thanks for the link, been a while since I have looked at that. :thumbsup:

Rigid insulation against the bottom of the deck, and rim joists, seal all gaps between rigid insulation and joists, then batt insulation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Not yet, but I saw your post about it. Those guys have their heads up their butts. I used to think it was a bad thing that they use the state electrical inspector, but now I look at it as good since the guy is autonomous from their department.
 
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