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"EPA: We Have No Plans to Push Creation of Proper Lead-Paint Test Kits"
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Better than no test.
I appreciate this thread. As having taken the (joke) of a class and becoming certified it became very apparent that we the contractors are taken the brunt of the burden on this issue.
I've tested the same area with three different vials and have gotten two different results.
I thought is this best out of five? Ten? Are we back on the playground playing a pickup game of horse?
How can they demand that things be tested yet not provide - at a cost - a reliable means to do so.
That's always been in the back of my mind mulling around. Until this morning. I just reached out to two testing companies and am waiting for contact back.
If they have the guns, which ARE accurate, and provide a report why not??
By the time I buy a kit, break open five vials and then still not KNOW for sure what we're looking at - it's a done deal.
So to whomever mentioned hiring the company for the testing, THANK YOU!
(Well actually the suggestion to hire the company was in the comments from the article linked in this thread.) So THANK YOU Timberline MD
I've tested the same area with three different vials and have gotten two different results.
I thought is this best out of five? Ten? Are we back on the playground playing a pickup game of horse?
How can they demand that things be tested yet not provide - at a cost - a reliable means to do so.
That's always been in the back of my mind mulling around. Until this morning. I just reached out to two testing companies and am waiting for contact back.
If they have the guns, which ARE accurate, and provide a report why not??
By the time I buy a kit, break open five vials and then still not KNOW for sure what we're looking at - it's a done deal.
So to whomever mentioned hiring the company for the testing, THANK YOU!
(Well actually the suggestion to hire the company was in the comments from the article linked in this thread.) So THANK YOU Timberline MD
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Good luck making money on the jobs with lead. My window guy makes less money on the jobs with lead than the ones without lead. That's one reason i have nothing to do with it. Less money yet vastly more liability. Remember this law only works if its enforced and HO knows about it. Have not come across one HO on one single job yet who knows about it.
There's a lot of things a homeowner isn't aware of but that doesn't make it right.
Here's an example - Very much pre - 1978 year old home in the older section of the city suburb. Nice young couple with their first child less than two years old.
I have to disclose to them about the possibility of lead & test before I can repair the water damage to the main level from the leak from the upstairs bathroom.
If I chose not to go this route and they become 'aware' at a later date and that kid or their future kid has a symptom that could be from lead poisoning guess who's ass is fried? Let alone the legal ramifications but the moral ones.
I think the entire thing, again is a load of crap with us as the beasts of burden.
But your 'window guy' making less money? If he doesn't have a system into place for lead windows to cover his costs then he's going at it all wrong.
Same as with the way I go about this, if the homeowner's don't want to use me, do it right if there is lead and sign off on the extra cost - I'm not involved, period.
Here's an example - Very much pre - 1978 year old home in the older section of the city suburb. Nice young couple with their first child less than two years old.
I have to disclose to them about the possibility of lead & test before I can repair the water damage to the main level from the leak from the upstairs bathroom.
If I chose not to go this route and they become 'aware' at a later date and that kid or their future kid has a symptom that could be from lead poisoning guess who's ass is fried? Let alone the legal ramifications but the moral ones.
I think the entire thing, again is a load of crap with us as the beasts of burden.
But your 'window guy' making less money? If he doesn't have a system into place for lead windows to cover his costs then he's going at it all wrong.
Same as with the way I go about this, if the homeowner's don't want to use me, do it right if there is lead and sign off on the extra cost - I'm not involved, period.
Easy - it isn't their problem that there's no decent cheap test, it's yours and mine. I do agree that they mislead when they say one test or another meets the law - the quick tests are just not suitable for me to use to establish lead levels.
On another note - I've been practicing dust free repairs, so I have a better handle on costs for anything where I'm going to have to be RRP compliant. So far it's looking like triple materials cost and a few extra hours for a medium repair.
Oh I hear you loud and clear Hdavis. The whole thing is bass ackwards but that would take a far longer thread.
I spoke at length with a testing company this morning. Very reasonable imho on price and results.
They are now on my speciality sub contractor list.
I, too have been largely leaning towards dustless construction, to the point that when I took the class I realized I was not too far from their recommendations.
Now having spoke with whom I spoke with this morning, I can be confident going into and selling a 1978 or older home project. Knowing that I will be able to know without a shadow of a doubt whether there is lead in the projects location or not. I never trusted the do it yourself kits and could see a whole ****pile of problems potentially down the road a few years from now.
Anywho I am glad the link that started this thread was posted.
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The reason it makes him less money is because hardly anyone in this area follows the rules so when the HO has 3 other window guys come in and all give a lower price than him because they don't contain the lead dust if its there. He adds enough to cover the expense of the equipment but there's no way he can compete if he has to charge for the extra labor involved. The window business is already cut throat without the hassle off RRP. The other problem is he has to pull in a lot if work so he can't afford to let the jobs go so eats the labor required for the RRP. That's his prices back into the realm if normal.
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There is no need for any such "kit" when there are thousands of us consultants with highly accurate XRF machines ready to test, and to do so with absolutely no damage, not even a mark.
The key to lowering the cost of testing is saving the consultant time, especially travel time. That can be done by grouping small projects.
The key to lowering the cost of testing is saving the consultant time, especially travel time. That can be done by grouping small projects.
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I typically have 3 appointments for a...say kitchen remodel. The first is free to take a look-see and begin the process. The second is a formal walk through with subs to get accurate quotes. The third is for contract signing.
I'm assuming you would be there for the 2nd appt correct? And what should us GC's expect to pay for this on average? (Typical 200 sf kitchen being the example)
How have the contractors you have worked for worked this cost into their quote? Charge on initial consultation? Charge when refining the scope of work?
That's fine if there's some lead time available.
Suppose there's a roof leak, and a sheet of ceiling drywall has to be replaced (along with insulation). If you have to make a 1 hr one way trip to do the testing for this, what kind of money is that going to cost?
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A good average for lead consulting time is $1,000 to $1,500 per day. That is enough to completely inspect a typical 30-unit 1960s apartment building, smaller older apartment building, two houses, or a few very simple projects, depending on proximity. Office work also has to be included, as even a simple project has some office time, certainly no less than one hour (discussing the project, sending a contract, preparing the report, sending the report). Travel time counts, as a busy consultant would be silly to spend all day traveling to and from a $500 project if they could do a $1,500 project in that same day. If you find the consultants in your area, they can discuss the types of projects you perform and fees.
Don't forget asbestos. All materials which might contain asbestos must be assumed to contain asbestos and be handled accordingly until they have been properly sampled and analyzed. Few things containing asbestos can be identified visually (asbestos cement products, some pipe and duct insulation, and some common patterns of vinyl floor tile and sheet vinyl), so laboratory analysis is required. It is possible to have materials sampled and analyzed the same day. The laboratory rates for super rush analysis (3 hours from time received) are $18 plus per sample, and a house needs on average 30 samples. A supermarket may need 50 or 60. Besides the laboratory analysis costs, asbestos survey reports require more office time than lead survey reports, say one-third to one half day of office time for every day of field time.
I'd recommend looking for consultants who perform surveys with teams of two to maximize safety, quality, and efficiency.
For the one sheet of drywall example, the area can be enclosed with plastic sheeting until the consulting reports are ready, or the contractor, with the proper training, equipment, and license(s) can assume that the materials contain asbestos and lead and handle them accordingly. Of course, the problem is that most contactors do not have those things, so specialty abatement contractors are often hired, or A&L are ignored.
Don't forget asbestos. All materials which might contain asbestos must be assumed to contain asbestos and be handled accordingly until they have been properly sampled and analyzed. Few things containing asbestos can be identified visually (asbestos cement products, some pipe and duct insulation, and some common patterns of vinyl floor tile and sheet vinyl), so laboratory analysis is required. It is possible to have materials sampled and analyzed the same day. The laboratory rates for super rush analysis (3 hours from time received) are $18 plus per sample, and a house needs on average 30 samples. A supermarket may need 50 or 60. Besides the laboratory analysis costs, asbestos survey reports require more office time than lead survey reports, say one-third to one half day of office time for every day of field time.
I'd recommend looking for consultants who perform surveys with teams of two to maximize safety, quality, and efficiency.
For the one sheet of drywall example, the area can be enclosed with plastic sheeting until the consulting reports are ready, or the contractor, with the proper training, equipment, and license(s) can assume that the materials contain asbestos and lead and handle them accordingly. Of course, the problem is that most contactors do not have those things, so specialty abatement contractors are often hired, or A&L are ignored.
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At them kinds of costs its gonna be cheaper to treat every job like it contains lead!
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Only every very small job. Have you priced polyethylene sheeting (thick enough to last, 4 to 6-mil)? All of the other supplies? The time to erect the containments, and perform the cleaning? Record keeping time?
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I go above what RRP require on almost every job without lead. I do dust free remodels so im more than set up for RRP with negative pressure extraction and tool dust extraction. Thats why its cheaper for some contractors to just not XRF test and treat all jobs like theres lead. I dont want anything to do with RRP though. way to much liability.
Yeah, the poor home owner with a child is worried about lead poisoning.
Here is an idea, dont buy a friggin house with lead paint and then you dont need to worry about your kid getting lead poisoning. Wake the frig up.
Oh wait, just blame some contractor for your dumb ass decision to buy a home with lead paint.
Here is an idea, dont buy a friggin house with lead paint and then you dont need to worry about your kid getting lead poisoning. Wake the frig up.
Oh wait, just blame some contractor for your dumb ass decision to buy a home with lead paint.
Reality check from the field - contractor taking asbestos siding off a building. Minimal nods to work practice compliance. Same house, another contractor ripping all the lead paint coated clapboards off the house to prep for vinyl siding. "Lowes contractor" with zero work practice compliance. As of now, the only proof there was ever any clapboards at all are the pictures that were taken:whistling
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