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Tangential, maybe. . .:laughing:
Or maybe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_speech :blink:

spe·cious/ˈspēSHəs/
adjective
superficially plausible, but actually wrong.

I've been called plenty of names, but never superficial. You might have me confused with that guy from New Yawk who doesn't seem to like women but who wants to be prez. :clap:
Give us a ring when you have something on topic
 

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Brownchickenbrowncow
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Ummmm an Ufer is pretty standard, pretty basic. In my area it is inspected by Electrical Inspector during his underground inspection. My building inspector WILL not check the other trades sign off for ok to pour. Sparky better make sure he gets his inspector a looksie before my trucks show.

With that, typically quite a bit of underground MEPS to get inspected before I schedule trucks. Ufer is typically last as it ties to my bar. Things like this always get a dozen picture as a failsafe.
 

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John the Builder
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Give us a ring when you have something on topic
He's got a button on his keyboard labeled [GOOGLE]

:thumbup:

Wait, I'm not relevant either - me sad.
 

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No electrical license requirements in PA except cities of Pittsburgh, Erie, and Philly. No ufer requirements either.

We are licensed in OH and WV too. OH is the only place we've worked that has ufer requirements. This is commercial not residential. Can't speak to residential.

I call both the rebar and electrical inspector. The rebar inspector typically checks the connection. If he is happy he will call the electrical guy and tell him all is good, no need to come out.

None of my suppliers stock a listed clamp for encasement in concrete. I have to special order clamps for large bar. On #4 bar I have the guys exothermic weld a piece of #2 tinned solid copper. That is suitable for most of our services. A 4/0 to #2 parallel mold works perfectly for this.
 

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Still, a veteran of the trade should be smart enough to know new codes are enacted, and should take it upon himself to study and learn said new codes.
I worked in a manufacturing plant for 5 years, the electrician who was there for 35 years had no clue what the new industrial codes were let alone what the new residential codes were.

Tom
 

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Give us a ring when you have something on topic
You have changed the topic to ad hominem remarks about me.

But, I will have to explain more carefully the connection between what was posted and what I posted. Generally I try to go from the literal posting to the abstract overarching rules or formulas: the basics.

For example, if the NEC posted the basic formulas and their reasoning behind using these formulas, instead of just the rules, the book would be only a few pages. Sure, it would be hard to understand, but it's already hard to understand.
And for those of you who took programming, you may see that the NEC has grammatical ambiguities, by accident or intentionally (because statutes & code books have to be somewhat vague).
Logical flaws seem to be also permitted. :blink:

In this case, go back to basics, whether it's decision theory or physical laws or whatever. At least then you can justify your decision based on sound science rather than hunches or hearsay.
 

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Wormdrive Operator
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You have changed the topic to ad hominem remarks about me.

But, I will have to explain more carefully the connection between what was posted and what I posted. Generally I try to go from the literal posting to the abstract overarching rules or formulas: the basics.

For example, if the NEC posted the basic formulas and their reasoning behind using these formulas, instead of just the rules, the book would be only a few pages. Sure, it would be hard to understand, but it's already hard to understand.
And for those of you who took programming, you may see that the NEC has grammatical ambiguities, by accident or intentionally (because statutes & code books have to be somewhat vague).
Logical flaws seem to be also permitted. :blink:

In this case, go back to basics, whether it's decision theory or physical laws or whatever. At least then you can justify your decision based on sound science rather than hunches or hearsay.
I want what he's smoking.
 

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You have changed the topic to ad hominem remarks about me.

But, I will have to explain more carefully the connection between what was posted and what I posted. Generally I try to go from the literal posting to the abstract overarching rules or formulas: the basics.

For example, if the NEC posted the basic formulas and their reasoning behind using these formulas, instead of just the rules, the book would be only a few pages. Sure, it would be hard to understand, but it's already hard to understand.
And for those of you who took programming, you may see that the NEC has grammatical ambiguities, by accident or intentionally (because statutes & code books have to be somewhat vague).
Logical flaws seem to be also permitted. :blink:

In this case, go back to basics, whether it's decision theory or physical laws or whatever. At least then you can justify your decision based on sound science rather than hunches or hearsay.
Playing the victim card, are we? I never attacked you personally. I pointed out that your arguments seemed to lack coherence and validity. All reasonable actions in a debate.
 

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GC/carpenter
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Journeymen Electricians are required to be certified by the state, DIR as I recall, and part of this is a continuing education requirement that I believe is 32 hours.
You are correct Griz, and to expand on that a little.

Department of industrial Relations:

As a certified electrician am I required to obtain continuing education to maintain my certification?
Yes. You are required to obtain 32 hours of continuing education and present proof of certificate of completion to renew your certification.

I have a C-10 license; do I have to be certified?
No, sole owners who have a license in their own name need not be certified.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
You have changed the topic to ad hominem remarks about me.

But, I will have to explain more carefully the connection between what was posted and what I posted. Generally I try to go from the literal posting to the abstract overarching rules or formulas: the basics.

For example, if the NEC posted the basic formulas and their reasoning behind using these formulas, instead of just the rules, the book would be only a few pages. Sure, it would be hard to understand, but it's already hard to understand.
And for those of you who took programming, you may see that the NEC has grammatical ambiguities, by accident or intentionally (because statutes & code books have to be somewhat vague).
Logical flaws seem to be also permitted. :blink:

In this case, go back to basics, whether it's decision theory or physical laws or whatever. At least then you can justify your decision based on sound science rather than hunches or hearsay.
I'm a bit perplexed by the negative responses to this. Laws and regulations often times are motivated by human emotion. I can't imagine that codes, and particularly their enforcement, are imune to human emotions. When this might be the case, then go back to the principles. Be true to yourself and to the safety of your client, and THEN play the game, true?
 

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I own stock in FotoMat!
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..........For example, if the NEC posted the basic formulas and their reasoning behind using these formulas, instead of just the rules, .........

They do. It's called the Report on Proposals. It contains every vote taken on every proposal sent to the NFPA and explains the reason behind accepting, accept in part, accept in principle, send to a TCC or rejection of the proposal.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
A ufer is required. Sounds like your electrician is out of touch with the current code.

Lacking a ufer (such as a existing structure) , only two rods are required.

Been a while. Been swamped.

Inspector saw the rods, looked a bit shocked (pun intended) and went inside to see the ufer. Of course, I had the ground connected to the ufer, before his inspection.

He agreed with you guys that the rods weren't needed when an ufer is being used Nor is there a problem with the rods being used in addition to the ufer.

He said that, at this point, the rods were acting as a backup to the ufer.

I'm going to leave the rods connected. Do ya-all agree with the inspector that it's not a problem to have the rods, also? Is there a potential problem with a ground loop or whatever? (sorry but I don't know jack about electricity).
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Oh, and almost forgot. That you all! Extremely informative! Many thanks!
 
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