Knock yourself out. Who does your flatwork again?

I do. Nice bit of dishonesty there, sport. Why did you cut short what I wrote? I think stacking up durock is dumb, but it's certainly not a straight path to failure. Lots of cold joints there, but the thinsets these days are pretty badass. Heck, even Versabond is better than what was available just a few years ago. I can explain what I know to be true. Can you?

Durock is concrete wrapped in mesh. It doesn't compress under load. In this sense, it's as good as a slab in terms of supporting tile vertically. Durock taped at the seams moves pretty uniformly. (More uniformly than the average concrete slab) Durock, having no finish coat like concrete slabs, is highly permeable. This means it gets wet quick and dries out quick. Over a slab, durock can perform as a crack suppression membrane in limited situations with the proper setting materials. (no one will guarantee this)

 

[Who does your flatwork again?]
I do.

Then you suck. :laughing: If your work is flat enough to set on, but you still gotta glue down cbu to get it up to where it should have been in the first place, well then, really.....

OK, pulling back a bit. You do great flatwork, which you set tile on, or 10 years later or more come back and set tile on, great. You're a good man. But if you think you can just slap down a piece of cbu on someone elses pour and have it work out, well, I think the voids ozlo alluded to would come into play, so the person would have to play with mud to get his flat surface, well, flat. So why not ditch the cbu in the first place?

I dunno as most of the residential remod stuff seems strange at times to me. I think there will not only be cold joints between the sheets of cbu (seams) , but also between the cbu and the slab. Remember, there's no mechanical fasteners, so it's all cold joint chemical.
Alrightly then, so apparently the only remedy would be to put down some ditra, then cbu on top of that, then tile. :laughing:

Durock...doesn't compress under load. In this sense, it's as good as a slab in terms of supporting tile vertically.

You've touched on something I've always wondered about--why glue and screw durock to the floor if it moves? Wouldn't this make it a floating 'bed'?

Over a slab, durock can perform as a crack suppression membrane

Horizontal cold joint?

IMHO, guarantees given by manufacturers are little more than a selling point at the point of sale. Manufacturers will only help you out if you do any volume.

 

He's asking the question and we are giving our answers.
You're giving advice. Really dumb advice.

I've always wondered about--why glue and screw durock to the floor

Why indeed. Gluing down CBU makes about as mush sense as caulking shingles.

Tile doesn't need to be held down. It needs to be held up.

 

He's asking the question and we are giving our answers.
You're giving advice. Really dumb advice.

I've always wondered about--why glue and screw durock to the floor

Why indeed. Gluing down CBU makes about as mush sense as caulking shingles.

Tile doesn't need to be held down. It needs to be held up.

You set it in a bed of mortar to fill the voids and imperfections of the subfloor to avoid a pocket that could be compressed. If your floor was perfectly flat and the durock was perfectly flat screwing would be perfectly adequate.

 

I'll recap for you coffer.

CDC says mold starts to grow after 48 hours. You think that's bull.

You say grout is an effective filter for organic material but admit that water at the bottom of a shower is a cesspool. How about 2.5 ft of water sitting over a grout joint in his basement? Think just maybe some water got in there with some microscopic mold spores?

You say cement board is permeable. No argument. 2X cement board sitting under 2.5 ft of water probably is soaked completely. And how long would it take to dry out if it's covered by a porcelain tile? While it's trying to dry, it's still forming mold.

 

Lol CC is gonna argue this until he blue in the face. The same things he is saying keep dirty water from getting through the tile is keeping it there.

He had more than just a cup full of water over his floor. It was flooded with dirty river water that sure as he'll made it way into the central core of that floor. There's still many gallons of water just sitting there breeding mold as we speak. It's gonna leave there far slower than how it got there under pressure. A damp, dirty, dark environment means mold. The CBU is gonna make the issue even worse. As you even said your self it's a sponge. Have you ever noticed how a sponge can stay wet for weeks when it's full of water and that's out in the open. Now put that same sponge in a bucket with the lid just resting on the top it will stay wet for months. Clip the lid on it will stay wet for years.

 

I agree that it should come out, but slabs do an amazing job of wicking the moisture out. I would be surprised if there was any water in there after very long. How long ago was the flood. Make sure we get some pics when it comes out, so we can put this baby to bed.

 

We should let it sit for a couple weeks and place bets.

 

You need to work on walls and ceilings.

Walls and ceilings need to be bonded. Floors need to be supported. This is very basic stuff. If this is over your head, you have no business installing tile for a living.

Tell me again what should be done with the tile in a Burger King kitchen, smart friend. I missed your response apparently. With all that organic matter, what should be done with that tile?

Thanks in advance for your intelligent response.

 

Not sure what burger kings you go to but around here they ain't under 3ft of river water :laughing:

 

At least it was an intelligent question by most peoples standards

 

I guess filling his house up with 2 and a 1/2 feet of bleach and letting it soak in for a couple days isn't an intelligent solution either.

That's what I would have done, and the sump pump in my basement has been running almost nonstop for two days....so I'm stockpiling my own bleach right now.:jester:

 

The smartest guy just walked into the room!:clap: Here's a solution that has some science behind it, on topic and not just opinion. :thumbsup:

The recommended dose is 1/2 cup-1 cup bleach to gallon of water. Maybe a long soak would work. But the water was under the pressure of 2.5 ft of water pushing in under the tile. It might make for a long time to soak. Then it stills needs to dry out the layers of cbd while not starting any new mold growth. And would that bleach start to be less effective over time? Interesting idea.

 

Not sure what burger kings you go to but around here they ain't under 3ft of river water

So in your retarded imagination, the scum that penetrates a commercial kitchen floor is cleaner than the rainwater that feeds a river?

Keep on truckin', sport.

 

Again I'm not sure what burger kings you are going to but it don't rain inside the ones here:blink:

You do understand the difference between flooded and a film of water right? If someone walks in of the the street with wet feet it's extremely unlikely that water will penetrate even cement grout even a guy looting a bucket of water over the floor to wash it is unlikely to penetrate the grout. Not that it would matter because it would be full of bleach anyway.

Now what happens when you have 3rd of water. Well first off you have just increased the head of water farvpast what cement grout can handle. But that the least of your problems. You have just added enough water to force it's way through every entrance their is for water. Btween the baseboards, around penetrations in the tile, between pockets in the cub ect ect. Then the cbu acts like a sponge and passes it of the the cbu and so on. But hey if your tiling jobs are that bad that wet foot traffic is getting under the tile then you best find a new job.

 

I would think you'd know this but the grout that's used in food prep is epoxy.

So you're smart enough to admit to everyone here that you think grout of any kind protects the substrate from contaminants? Epoxy grout means no organic matter reaches the substrate?

I'm here every night. Go ahead and show off. This is easy for me. I've forgotten more than most of you will ever know.

Get on with it. Continue to flail.

 

Rip it all out. Because it got wet with the same muddy water than ran over your driveway. That's what you asswipes would tell an unsuspecting consumer?

You people make me sick.

May you rot.

 

You sound like you know a lot about tile, concrete, mud, etc. (I just know polymers and orange things have magical properties (but not together....bad JuJu!))

Buuuuuuut.....you opened up your show with "ignorant" "retards".....sprinkled in some "****" and other insults along the way, and just chucked an "asswipes".

What I can't figure out is why everyone has been so damn respectful in their responses? Better men than I.

So I guess no review on the BlueStick? You don't think IT will rot.....do you?

 

Coffer if that was your house, and the bedrooms got swamped, what would your course of action and timeline be.

 

Is this 239?

 

I have no idea what you're talking about, but neither do I on most of this thread. But it's amusing, a great way to wind down. I caught two stringers full of fish tonight, cleaned and in the freezer, so why not a lil amusement?

 

I havent said too much because i think the dude is going off the rails. Kinda weird to take such exception to something which is a safety issue. We're not talking about types of thin sets here, it's toxic dangerous stuff which he seems to feel very adamant is not an issue at all.

 

I wont even get into the language, as it always is a red flag for someone who has little formal education, and was raised poorly.

 

The ridiculous part is that I was actually learning something as a result of the back and forth....... the whole time wondering when the proverbial chit would hit the fan.

It never did. So I pissed on the blades a little bit. Sorry.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about, but neither do I on most of this thread. But it's amusing, a great way to wind down. I caught two stringers full of fish tonight, cleaned and in the freezer, so why not a lil amusement?

Ha! 239 was another member that came on here with his chest all pumped up, acting like he was Gods greatest gift to contracting....

 

Omg he was the ultamite dooooosh :thumbsup:

 

He was/is the greatest contract to ever touch a saw.. He only builds round stair cases because everything else is just too menial....

 

"Buuuuuuut.....you opened up your show with "ignorant" "retards".....sprinkled in some "****" and other insults along the way, and just chucked an "asswipes".

What I can't figure out is why everyone has been so damn respectful in their responses? Better men than I."

My sainted mother would have ended that sh*t while we were in grade school. And that would be the end of that kind of talk.Does it speak to ones upbringing or one's character to try to belittle people?

That angry man syndrome is sad, really. No need to get down to that level.

 

I can't believe some of the childish banter in this thread. Some feel like they have more to prove, than they do advice to offer...people somehow trying to reinforce their opinions by providing loosely related examples.

Regardless of what type of grout is used in a burger King or shower pan, those examples are dealing with surface water penetration, not saturation. There is a big difference between these situations. It's obvious that a small amount of water that soaked through a grout floor after a spill is not the issue at hand.

Also the discussion of water under tile outdoors? That makes even less sense considering it's outside, not trapped within the thermal envelope of a structure. There is tons of mold outdoors, it's everywhere. There is a little concept called "Parts per Million" and there is a whole bunch of air outside to dilute these mold spores to acceptable levels. There's another concept called "Air Circulation" which easily transports these mold spores outdoors. In a home there is a much lower volume of air, less fresh air exchange, and a vapor barrier.

I'm surprised I didn't see any mention of the obvious fact that flood water rises from the lowest point and would easily saturate the underlayment at the perimeter. It doesn't matter how well grout filters out media, the majority of the water under the tile entered from the edge of the floor.

It's safe to assume the floor has water in it. Slabs are not typically perfectly flat, we know durock is porous, and there are likely small pockets where water can collect.

It probably will dry out on its own, but it will be a slow process and mold growth is a possibility. Mold issues can correct themselves as moisture is removed. If it were my parents house, it would be stripped. Why take the chance, especially with the insurance company involved.

 

I might add that bleach should'nt be used for mold , at best it only temporarily keeps it at bay then it feeds it . Bleach is usually 7% sodium hypochlorite and the rest is water . You should use an anti microbial such as microban . Im a Sandy survivor with lots of experience on mold . DO NOT USE BLEACH :no::no::no:

 

Eaglei, what did they recommend for cleanup and mold prevention? How's the area coming back?

Phil, what took you so long to get here? Sure you want to play in this sandbox?


Let's put this BK scenario out to pasture.
Water absorption of grouts:
Standard grout 12%
latex mod grout 7%
epoxy grout .05%


Try to do some research before you spit out opinions as facts, C.

 

I've used a product called shockwave, with good results. It was a fairly small problem with excessive moisture in a basement. I also applied a sealer afterwards that inhibits future growth, I forget what that product was called. They key is to remove the moisture source or else it will be back.

Any major issues, I will leave to the pros.

Olzo, I here to help and learn. I have no agenda, no ego, nor the time to waste. I will stay over here on my merry go round, while kids dig cat turds out of the sand.

 

The area is slowly coming back , alot of issues with the insurance companies as expected . As far as the mold goes it seems its never ending . After most homeowners got rid of the interior mold they then found that the mold was growing on the exterior walls from inbetween the siding and sheating . This has become a big issue lately , some of the HO's thought they could become contractors and do the easy inside work such as insulation and sheetrock . Sheeting and siding is a little beyond their skill level . Everone was told to use bleach in the begining , it came in by the trailer fulls . After using the bleach everyone started noticing the mold would return in a week or so . Bleach is almost all water and is not effective on any permeable substrates such as building materials . The HO's that did'nt wait to see if the mold would come back started to insulate and sheetrock . :no: Take it all down again and sure enough the mold was thriving . Then they were told to use an antimicrobial such as microban , only to find out that it was'nt readily available . Now theres a lot of start up mold remedial companies driving around . I guess we did'nt learn anything from Katrina.

 

See, we can have an adult discussion in Flooring. Never give up hope.
Bleach is the recommened cleanup product on the EPA+ CDC websites. But from what you guys are saying, it isn't enough. A specialty cleaner is needed.

The smartest person in the room torch has been passed.