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I have a commercial project with a central hall that is using 2x10 joist down the hallway. The subs bid package includes materials and framing - factory built panels - field assembled. Their "Engineer" claims he can reduce the size of the joist hangers (2x10 down to 2x4 hanger) by end or butt nailing through the ledger board since it is accessible. I have asked for a stamped letter confirming this but I still want to confirm this practice as acceptable, not that I don't trust their engineer of course.

Have not been able to find any data on this by googling other than someone stating that end nailng reduces strength by 1/3rd. Simpson book does not consider this option. Getting ready to read through ICC.

I assume this was an acceptable practice at one time - before joist hangers - but dropping from a 2x10 to a 2x4 hanger makes me nervous.

Any ideas?

Thanks for any help.
 

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I have a commercial project with a central hall that is using 2x10 joist down the hallway. The subs bid package includes materials and framing - factory built panels - field assembled. Their "Engineer" claims he can reduce the size of the joist hangers (2x10 down to 2x4 hanger) by end or butt nailing through the ledger board since it is accessible. I have asked for a stamped letter confirming this but I still want to confirm this practice as acceptable, not that I don't trust their engineer of course.

Have not been able to find any data on this by googling other than someone stating that end nailng reduces strength by 1/3rd. Simpson book does not consider this option. Getting ready to read through ICC.

I assume this was an acceptable practice at one time - before joist hangers - but dropping from a 2x10 to a 2x4 hanger makes me nervous.

Any ideas?

Thanks for any help.
Are they that tight on their bid? Sounds like the old phrase, dollars chasing dimes.

Simpson assumes the liability for their products installed IAW their own standards through their testing and approval by different code writing agencies. There may be NO problem with the method described by the sub...but if you accept this change, you are removing Simpson from the equation. If you decide to accept a licensed engineer, who says its okay, then CYA with a paper trail. You already know all of this.

The tough thing that I sense from your posting is that this is your "gut" saying something doesn't feel right. Unless someone can very overwhelmingly convince me to accept change, I go with my gut. If the old ways work...use them. If a new way comes along...PROVE its worth to me.

Sounds like they want to save a few grand buying 2x4 rather than 2x8/10 hangers.

If your market is that tight...it makes subs start to approach meeting code rather than comfortably exceeding it. I never build to the minimum that is directed by code. That's just me.

Make them do the leg work to prove their position. You should answer NO unless you can prove it. Then, if you still don't like it...whip out the NO hammer again.

Good luck
 

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I have a commercial project with a central hall that is using 2x10 joist down the hallway. The subs bid package includes materials and framing - factory built panels - field assembled. Their "Engineer" claims he can reduce the size of the joist hangers (2x10 down to 2x4 hanger) by end or butt nailing through the ledger board since it is accessible. I have asked for a stamped letter confirming this but I still want to confirm this practice as acceptable, not that I don't trust their engineer of course.

Have not been able to find any data on this by googling other than someone stating that end nailng reduces strength by 1/3rd. Simpson book does not consider this option. Getting ready to read through ICC.

I assume this was an acceptable practice at one time - before joist hangers - but dropping from a 2x10 to a 2x4 hanger makes me nervous.

Any ideas?

Thanks for any help.
What is the reason for down sizing? He has to have one. He also has to give you a stamped letter. Ask both questions and see what his answer is. If it's to save a few dollars, that makes no sense. If this were the case every single house can be framed use 2x4 hangers using any size joist and they should just discontinue 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 and 2x12 hangers.
 

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I like end nailing. I would get it stamped if that is what makes you feel safe. I also like the idea of the pressure blocking if you use 2x4 hangers. Of course if done poorly it could cause squeaks.
 

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I like end nailing. I would get it stamped if that is what makes you feel safe. I also like the idea of the pressure blocking if you use 2x4 hangers. Of course if done poorly it could cause squeaks.
Why use 2x4 hangers and pressure blocking. It's a waste of time and money with more labor and material. Just use the correct size hangers and be done with it.
 

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Yes it was acceptable just after WWII ended. Of course that was before inspection and a true understanding of structural integrity. If their bid is that low then buy the 2-10 hangers yourself and have them install them. I've been so angrily quick to respond I've forgotten to ask what weight bears on them?
 
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