I absolutely think it's worth doing
I wish that's all I did was showers

Most installations that I've seen from guys like that are super basic. Nothing above and beyond

I think once you establish a good portfolio of showers, it helps sell them

I've never worried about competition like that.....probably because I am the one looking at the job and doing the work
Most people prefer that scenario and will pay a bit more for it

 

I just took a bath on the shower I did. Customer supplied all the tile. It took forever, the plumber ruined the floor twice, and the customer took a shower prior to me grouting. He didn't realize grout was needed. He felt the tile though and they were hard......idiots. It took me 3 weeks and I still need to go back 1 time.

 

No offense, but it sounds like your troubles are a lack of communication on your part. You need to let the customer know in no uncertain terms when the shower will be ready for use. And if the plumber damaged the floor multiple times, was he billed for repairs?

 

How much lower are their bids compared to yours?

 

I'm getting away from them for the reasons you mention. Too many folks are recommending "this great guy who's reasonable", even when they're terrible. And they use older, cheap methods. My friend just did a shower and bought everything online and drove the contractor nuts. The work hours they put into that thing was immense. No way that guy made reasonable money.

It's along the lines of my other thread regarding "total time" for jobs. When I add up all the time for these, end to end, It's nothing to get jazzed up about anymore.

Around here the installers all have tons of pics on their phone and close quick and fast. No way to really see quality that way, as you know, but folks go for it. I suspect one of the guys at my tile distributor is feeding business to his buddy like this, so I don't send clients to look around anymore.

 

Does Anyone Make Any Real Money On Tile Showers?

Yes. There is all kinds of money in tile showers. I am middle of the road on labor cost in my area. If you have sq foot pricing for the different situations you see frequently the bidding takes very little time. Then have a good T&M price for the oddball jobs. My biggest problem is finding a decent glass guy. Other than that showers are bread and butter for me.

 

There are high margins on bathroom renovations. It is in my opinion the most challenging home renovation project. The productivity is low, and the working spaces are cramped. In the above comments there is a pattern of issues where aspects of the job were taken away from the contractor. This will always result in issues.

 

Showers are where you need to be a better salesman. It's up to you to sell the value of what you do.

If you can explain the difference between a properly waterproofed shower and a slap-together job of tile directly on CBU with no vapor barrier in a relatively quick and nontechnical manner, you should win the bid almost every time.

I have learned getting too technical loses the HO. You can see it in their eyes as you cross that line.

So folks are worried about money. You need to explain how expensive it is to redo a shower if it fails. Explain the likelihood of one failing that's not properly done. Why not up it and give a lifetime warranty on your showers? I'd exclude and silicone or cementitiois grout coverage but if you are waterproofing a shower and flood test, there's no reason that shower shouldn't last less than 20 years.

You need to find a way to sell the value of one of your showers. You need to stand out from the crowd because of more than just price.

And to answer the question, there is real good margins in showers for me.

 

The ones I do, I make good money on. I start at a hundred a sqft based on pan dimensions and go up. A 3x5 can run from $1500 - as much as they want to spend. If it takes time it takes money. I have learned through the years approximately what I need to charge for given extras like niches, shelves, benches, borders, patterns, different drain configurations, glass, etc. My invoice program has all of the data input already so I can arrive at a close number pretty quick. I usually assess the job as a whole and add or subtract to that total and add my materials and markup into that to give the customer a total price. I do not breakout bids for showers period. They get done my way, with the materials I spec or I don't do them, no negotiating. It's the only way they remain profitable and it keeps the customer from pricing me against every tile shop and handyman in the world. I don't give a damn if someone else is cheaper. If price is your first concern on a shower build - I ain't your guy anyway.

 

I joke about getting the infamous "shower" call all the time. I get them about a half dozen times a year.

With me, the conversation always goes like this.

HO: I would like to re-tile my shower, add a new vanity & sink, new toilet and paint. Leaving the old floor.

Me: Do you have a budget you're thinking about?

HO: Yea. $1,200.

If I rolled my eyes any harder, I'd fall over. And then I'd probably have to pay a CalOSHA fall fine.

The only time I have ever made money on a shower, is during a full remodel of the bathroom or the entire house. But that's just me.

 

I make much better on large floors (Residential tile) I can tear out and install 500-800 sf in a week, with one outstanding helper. or I can set a shower in that same time. All I do is tile and I set for one of the best companies in the world so I have access to good size flooring jobs all the time.
I am setting here typing right now because I was supposed to be installing an ARC shower this week but the plumber has not changed the tub drain to a 2" when he changed the valve sets. Not that i mind a day off.

 

I agree. I make a larger margin on a floor but showers are absolutely worth my time (if you bid them correctly).

 

Just the opposite down here in the land of South American labor pools.... Floor work doesn't pay ****. When you have marble guys willing to set for $4/ft..... The best margins are in total bath remodels. Even cheap ones have a decent payoff.

 

I have no idea what others charge in my area. I do 2-4 showers a year. I price them to make money and do them with products I know will work. They are almost always a part of an entire bath remodel and I don't break anything out but the material budget for the tile. It eliminates a lot of problems this way.

 

I am just going to have to work on my selling strategy.

I can see I'm also going to have to streamline my estimating process. I think that is a lot of what is frustrating me. I do a lot of bathrooms. It seems like everyone and their brother wants a tile shower until they get an idea on what they cost. Its very common for me to quote a tile shower and then they downgrade to an insert because of cost.

I have a high close rate on most everything I get called for but I'm probably 2 out of 10 on tile showers this year.

 

I was the same way Spencer for a while. I finally pre-qualify a bit more now. It took me years to do that. I give them the range of a tile shower cost vs. a Sterling unit. I find out real quick where they want to be budget wise.

I love when their jaw drops on the tile shower cost...lol! Most just don't know.

 

I was the same way Spencer for a while. I finally pre-qualify a bit more now. It took me years to do that. I give them the range of a tile shower cost vs. a Sterling unit. I find out real quick where they want to be budget wise.

I love when their jaw drops on the tile shower cost...lol! Most just don't know.

Exactly.

I've had two deals lately where I was brought on board to handle fairly large bathroom remodels.

Both were in the $25-30k range. On one they had an acquaintance who was a flooring retailer. HO wanted me to handle everything besides putting tile in the shower. Their acquaintance was going to sell the tile and have his sub install the shower tile. I was basically even supposed to have it ready for them. I said sorry but no thanks. Its hard to explain to them all reasons that scenario just doesn't work well. Ended up completely walking away from that job.

Now I've got one on deck. I'm coming in working under an interior designer. She wants me to do everything besides the cabinets and tile shower. I sold her a little bit on the benefits of having me do everything but she has a quote from her normal tile guy. He is not very ambitious in his pricing, I think he may even be losing money to get her business. She even said she thinks he's done that in the past.

On this one I'm pretty confident I have the rest of the job so I can just lopside the labor on my other stuff to make the shower look cheaper but it still makes me shake my head when I see what some guys work for.

 

A lot of our competition is much cheaper than we are. We still do about a shower a month, and still meet our margins.

E Payne

 

I know two guys who use to do showers full time and quit because people were continuously getting bids for about half. I'm currently bidding an upper end shower that was put in by a half price "tile" person so hopefully it'll work out. Going to charge my going rate regardless. I only hope that all these half price showers will get people to regain trust and need in the likes of us again.

 

Those big tile guys are really hard to beat. Im done price matching them, just not worth it. Was when i first started working for my self. Then one time I hired them and that was the last time.

 

I kill it on shower/tub surrounds bathrooms etc. Some of the highest profit margins are in bathrooms for me. Usually 18% profit on the low end.

Still only close maybe 70% of the bids I put out there for bathrooms, did 19 bathrooms last year with all tiled tub or shower surrounds, started three baths on mon and tue this week all in different houses.

It's typical low ballers etc......... competition, who cares, I try to tell customers I do a larger volume of baths and they should feel comfortable with my process and ability. It works. My sq ft prices are not low and they are only going up, was talking with some guys from the next county over at the tile store and comparing prices, they made me feel pretty low cause they were getting at least $3.00 sq ft more than me. due to lack of tradesmen and demand for higher quality.

stick to your prices and your quality you'll only win in the end

 

I do probably 20-25 showers a year, maybe more. I usually make a good profit on them. When I started out on my own several years ago I priced too competitively. It helped build a client base and get my name out there. Since then I have completely changed my model. I have often been the go to guy for fixing the previous contractors screwed up shower. I'm not the cheapest tile guy, but when I walk away you will have a shower that will last 15-20 years.

Any schmuck can set tile and slap up a shower. It takes a pro to do it right the first time.

I have also had to separate my tile into different price points. Such as quick Reno jobs for landlords and such. Not as glamorous of jobs but surprisingly the margins are often better.

 

What products have found to be the best for curbs and lining ?
Just got a lead for 3 stalls in commercial building. Probably no curb but I wonder if schluter is the best.

 

I am sort of in the same boat where I have started to wonder whether or not doing bathroom renovations is even worth it for me.

As my year end passes at the end of this month, I have started reviewing jobs of the last year. I am a carpenter by trade who does do bathrooms and the like as well and granted not being a tile setter by trade I am starting to think they are becoming a black hole labour wise. The numbers seem to tell me the same. 18% profit? I really hope that is gross as that isn't anywhere near what I get on a bathroom remodel?

Deck or Kitchen or custom woodworking project? Absolutely.

Spencer my suggestion to you (if you care about my opinion at all lol) as based on what I have seen through your posts is we are in roughly the same position being full remodelers is let the numbers do the talking.

I have been on my own going on 3 years and have dabbled in everything because a job is a job. I honestly believe, as I'm sure you do that my skill set can figure out how to do something well no matter the project. I have found my "ego" get in the way as I hate to tell myself I can't make money doing a certain project because I feel that loses me a customer or makes me less of a tradesman and I'm absolutely fascinated as I learn more just how much is involved scientifically in regards to tile setting.

The problem? If I can make the 18% to 20% doing decks and custom woodworking as this is my background, why grind it out countless hours making sure you're doing right by the clients to make 10% or embarrassingly enough less or nothing because you didnt know ahead of time what was involved or could be involved due to lack of experience and bid the project wrong? This has happened to me on 3 bathrooms this year and yet I still think I will do well at the end because I have my non bathroom remodels picking up the slack.

Basically the numbers are telling me something. It seems your question stems from them telling you the same. My ego is making it hard for me to listen, hopefully you can listen to yours.

 

Sounds similar to the thoughts I have.

An example for me of numbers talking would be flooring. I don't mind doing flooring at all but I don't do hardly any. Reason being it is to competitive and not worth my time. Really, the only time I do flooring is if its part of a bathroom and it isn't worth bringing a sub in.

Around here, almost all the flooring that goes in is either a DIY job were it is purchased from lowes or menards. Otherwise is goes in through a local small business retailer. There are several locally.

These retailers sell the product and then have guys who will install. I think of several retailers, every one of the the installers in the area are actually subcontractors even though they are really employees.

All these guys do is flooring. Their only overhead is tools for flooring. On top of that from what I can tell they don't have very high standards on what they want to make. A good day for most of these flooring guys would be making $300/day. A good day for me is $500/day. I'm not working for $300/day just so I can do flooring.

That leads me to the point that the same retailers are selling tile for showers and having their 1099 subs do the install. Again, they are happy working for much less.

There have to be unique circumstances for me to be able to sell the job with me doing the shower and get what I want. Most of the time the dollars say no on tile showers mainly due to the fact that at surface value the competition does a comparable job and is less in price. The key is at surface value. Sometimes I can sell myself, most of the time I'm better off to not bother trying and like you, stick to the jobs with better margins.

 

profit in showers

OK. Here's the deal. I do very well with them . my company does tile showers on an ongoing basis. how many? Last glass door order was for 7 different jobs. I won't touch one for under 2500 plus all material. Have been doing it for nearly 20 years. I ll tell anyone our approach and how we established our wet area business. Showers are the least amount of tile for the most money.

 

Nope, the real money is in decks.

 

And here I thought it was in property preservation.

 

Here's what's missed in construction : the money is in any project or trade you do well and can turn efficiently.
Decks are a perfect example . A skilled carpenter can do well, but there are always knuckleheads who low ball, just like with showers. Showers aren't a gold mine, but no one should take on the service and liability without a profit. Realistically tile floors often pay the best if you look at time and money .

 

Just last week I made a decision that is in line with this topic. I am done biding on kitchens and baths. I will do them as time and material jobs. If someone wan't me to do their kitchen or bathroom because it's me I am happy to do it. If they are shopping for price, I am not interested when it comes to those two types of projects. I have felt like a free man since I made that decision.