Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello Everone. I stumbled upon this forum this morning and have been doing a lot of reading, and learned a ton.

I hate to do this, but my first post on here is unfortuantely going to be a rape of your guy's collective experiance for my own benifit, but I hope it isnt too much trouble for some of you to give some advice.

Im not a painter, just an engineering student. However, A friend hired me to paint her livingroom and apparantly I did such a good job that her homeowners association wants to hire me to paint their building.

Herein lies the problem. The building is huge, approximately 8600 Sqft inside and out. They want it all painted.

It's all repaint, and approx 4200 of that is exterior. The remaining 4400 is interior with 2400 of that being a public rest room.

The building is single story, and nothing really tricky about it, just a big rectangle. a few doors and windows but nothing too bad.

After spending a few hours reading on here and other various places, as well as talking to a few guys locally, I am coming up with estimates in the 1$ a sqfoot range for two coat, primer, pressure wash exterior & bathroom, + intial wash of bathroom and interior.

At 40$ a man hour(this is in an affluent area in California, and this rate seems to match my lack of experiance.), that comes out to approx 215 Man hours. That seems like way more than it would actually take (but what do I know?).

I do have a fair amount of experiance doing various types of trade labor with people and I can't see the job taking more that ~130 man hours total.

The amount of work doesnt turn me off and I don't think I am dillusional about what it will take to get it done, but quoting in the 8.5K range seems high to me.

Am I way off base ?

Thanks in advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,265 Posts
Bort62 said:
Im not a painter, just an engineering student. However, A friend hired me to paint her livingroom and apparantly I did such a good job that her homeowners association wants to hire me to paint their building.
If I'm understanding correctly you're doing the painting on a 'side job' basis. You haven't formed a business entity and you're not 'licensed' or insured. You don't pay corporate or payroll taxes and presumably you have no means, other than your good intentions, to warrant your work free of defects for any period of time. If that's a fair conclusion to draw then I'd think the HOA should expect that you'd do the work for about 1/3 of what they'd otherwise expect to pay a legitimate painting firm. Good luck. Be careful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for clearing that up, very much on a "side job" basis.

That being established, What would said HOA expect to pay a "legitimate" painting firm to do the job ?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I should also mention that I understand how this might be annoying to those of you whom are legitimate as people like me come in and do generally substandard work and undercut your buisness, but I appriciate any help you can give me.

This is a unique situation and is hardly the norm.
 

·
"Buy Quality, Cry Once"
Joined
·
726 Posts
Bort62 said:
I should also mention that I understand how this might be annoying to those of you whom are legitimate as people like me come in and do generally substandard work and undercut your buisness, but I appriciate any help you can give me.

This is a unique situation and is hardly the norm.
You have no overhead to speak of so everything you make on this job will be profit.

I do have a fair amount of experiance doing various types of trade labor with people and I can't see the job taking more that ~130 man hours total
I do have over head, my hourly rate needs to be $50.00. If you are calculating your man hours properly, and without knowing anything about the job my price would come to about $6500.00. Then I normally tack on 30% to matierials to get my final price.

One word of caution: any liability that should happen to rear its ugly head on the job becomes your baby due to 0 insurance. :eek:

I take it you have the brushes, dropcloths, ladders etc.... to get the job done, as well as a means to get said sundries to job? :Thumbs:


Im not a painter, just an engineering student.
Painting a HOA building maybe gets you in the door for alot more work. Help to pay some college expense. Might be worth getting legit for. :cool:

www.shimmerz.biz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
more work, my thoughts also... man, i am legit, put quite a bit of work (and cash) into advertising, and my phone hasn't rung for two months...i need that job!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,471 Posts
You may want to check on licensing. Here one is required and they will take you to the pokey for working without one. You may get by with the interior work but when you go outside all it takes is one passing inspector. Some towns here also use the PD to report less than professional appearing contractors or ones without their license# displayed on their vehicles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
169 Posts
Bort62 said:
Hello Everone. I stumbled upon this forum this morning and have been doing a lot of reading, and learned a ton.

I hate to do this, but my first post on here is unfortuantely going to be a rape of your guy's collective experiance for my own benifit, but I hope it isnt too much trouble for some of you to give some advice.

Im not a painter, just an engineering student. However, A friend hired me to paint her livingroom and apparantly I did such a good job that her homeowners association wants to hire me to paint their building.

Herein lies the problem. The building is huge, approximately 8600 Sqft inside and out. They want it all painted.

It's all repaint, and approx 4200 of that is exterior. The remaining 4400 is interior with 2400 of that being a public rest room.

The building is single story, and nothing really tricky about it, just a big rectangle. a few doors and windows but nothing too bad.

After spending a few hours reading on here and other various places, as well as talking to a few guys locally, I am coming up with estimates in the 1$ a sqfoot range for two coat, primer, pressure wash exterior & bathroom, + intial wash of bathroom and interior.

At 40$ a man hour(this is in an affluent area in California, and this rate seems to match my lack of experiance.), that comes out to approx 215 Man hours. That seems like way more than it would actually take (but what do I know?).

I do have a fair amount of experiance doing various types of trade labor with people and I can't see the job taking more that ~130 man hours total.

The amount of work doesnt turn me off and I don't think I am dillusional about what it will take to get it done, but quoting in the 8.5K range seems high to me.

Am I way off base ?

Thanks in advance.
What type of building is it?..substrates? What surfaces are EXCLUDED? How did you arrives at your sq.ft. total?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Not the norm?? If I saw you taking the food off my table with no insurance and no license I would for sure report it. What if you leave for lunch and some lady thinks that eating lunch on the roof sounds like a great idea. She looks around and bam...there is a ladder propped onto the building. As she climbs the ladder (your ladder) she gets tangled in her skirt and falls to the ground. It only takes 6 feet to kill a person. Guess what- College bills won't be your only bill for the rest of your life- you will be paying for all of her bills and her huge lawsuit against you.
Maybe you should raise your bid to cover those costs!!! :evil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,265 Posts
premierpainting said:
If I saw you taking the food off my table with no insurance and no license I would for sure report it. Maybe you should raise your bid to cover those costs!!!
Premier - It's too bad it took 10 posts for someone to plainly say that. Sometimes we're our own worst enemies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,471 Posts
I go both ways on this one.
I was on my own at 16, worked my way through graduate degrees mostly on construction and jackleg jobs. I feel guilty condemning someone for doing as I did. Now that I'm older, I understand the need for some form of quality control. I don't know where to draw the line.
IMHO starting from the ground up teaches you what you need to know without all of the peripherals. In 40 yrs. no one has asked me to diagram a sentence. Maybe this engn. student will figure out a better way to coat walls.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,265 Posts
Nothing like an Engineer in waiting to give you a case of the warm and fuzzies, huh Teetor :D ? Can't you just see his pressed, white, button down shirt, breast pocket protector and belt loop slide rule holder (visions of my dad cicra 1965, Goddard Space Flight Center).
I agree there's nothing better than the 'ground up' education. That being said, in this day and age I also think there's no place for semi-pro contractors on the commercial scene.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,471 Posts
Rich, I said that I was torn on this situation. Is it right? No. On the other hand I would like to know how many on this site followed the rules and how many came in through the hawse hole. I know many successful contractors, some did it one way and some did it the outlaw way. An odd aside, most that took the left fork in the road are,today, more highly respected then the 'old school' guys. Go figure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
My advise is spend the 1000 to 1500 to get the cal contractors license and the insurance. If this is anywhere but the middle of nowhere in so cal I cant believe you will finish before getting questioned as to your credentials. If this were a 1500 foot house in Mojave I would say go for it. The risks are to high for a HOA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Be carefull

Bort62 said:
Hello Everone. I stumbled upon this forum this morning and have been doing a lot of reading, and learned a ton.

I hate to do this, but my first post on here is unfortuantely going to be a rape of your guy's collective experiance for my own benifit, but I hope it isnt too much trouble for some of you to give some advice.

Im not a painter, just an engineering student. However, A friend hired me to paint her livingroom and apparantly I did such a good job that her homeowners association wants to hire me to paint their building.

Herein lies the problem. The building is huge, approximately 8600 Sqft inside and out. They want it all painted.

It's all repaint, and approx 4200 of that is exterior. The remaining 4400 is interior with 2400 of that being a public rest room.

The building is single story, and nothing really tricky about it, just a big rectangle. a few doors and windows but nothing too bad.

After spending a few hours reading on here and other various places, as well as talking to a few guys locally, I am coming up with estimates in the 1$ a sqfoot range for two coat, primer, pressure wash exterior & bathroom, + intial wash of bathroom and interior.

At 40$ a man hour(this is in an affluent area in California, and this rate seems to match my lack of experiance.), that comes out to approx 215 Man hours. That seems like way more than it would actually take (but what do I know?).

I do have a fair amount of experiance doing various types of trade labor with people and I can't see the job taking more that ~130 man hours total.

The amount of work doesnt turn me off and I don't think I am dillusional about what it will take to get it done, but quoting in the 8.5K range seems high to me.

Am I way off base ?

Thanks in advance.
My understanding of California law. (I do not live or work there just from reading different boards). Any one doing more then $500 worth of work on a job needs a license. If the contractor does not have a license there is no leagle obligation to pay for the work regardless of how well it was done. I have read horror stories of unlicensed contractors not getting paid by clients that they latter found out allways hire unlicensed contractors so they don't have to pay. Be carefull.

Jim Bunton
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top