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Thanks Tom… Never cost plus, I have a % line item “profit and supervision” at the bottom for the entire job
When building I do mostly cost-plus, I am about to do a fixed price contract on a large 7 figure remodel, 1st non-cost plus job I've done in years. I did give owner a breakdown, but I grouped things together into about 25 categories, buried admin cost and supervision cost and some other soft costs into each line item, showed a net profit at the bottom that was much lower than the gross profit. As to individual subs quotes, I will provide 2-3 on pertinent stuff like HVAC if requested.

There is a high-end architect (his fees are as much as the contractor) I work with, he always takes the 3-4 bidders and puts all of their numbers on a spreadsheet to review and compare. He actually does it in an analytical way, he looks at each sub being used and might even recommend to the builder to use a particular sub. He will also tell you if a line item is substantially higher or lower than the other comparable builders bidding on the job. He doesn't use the process to club the builder over the head, he is trying to make sure the line items align with the specs and work he wants done. It is actually a pretty interesting process.
 

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When building I do mostly cost-plus, I am about to do a fixed price contract on a large 7 figure remodel, 1st non-cost plus job I've done in years. I did give owner a breakdown, but I grouped things together into about 25 categories, buried admin cost and supervision cost and some other soft costs into each line item, showed a net profit at the bottom that was much lower than the gross profit. As to individual subs quotes, I will provide 2-3 on pertinent stuff like HVAC if requested.

There is a high-end architect (his fees are as much as the contractor) I work with, he always takes the 3-4 bidders and puts all of their numbers on a spreadsheet to review and compare. He actually does it in an analytical way, he looks at each sub being used and might even recommend to the builder to use a particular sub. He will also tell you if a line item is substantially higher or lower than the other comparable builders bidding on the job. He doesn't use the process to club the builder over the head, he is trying to make sure the line items align with the specs and work he wants done. It is actually a pretty interesting process.
I do that but with public bids like the YMCA last year, and with fixed price custom homes.. infrastructure (utilities, sewer, underground, excavation), Super Structure (Foundation and structure, windows, doors etc...), MEPs (Mechanical, Plumbing, Electric, Low Voltage, inch of closed cell and fill cavities Spray Foam, sound bats), Exterior Finishes (roof, masonry, cladding), Interior Finishes, Table of Allowances or Specified Items List which has all of the lights, plumbing fixtures, counters, floors, back splashes, appliances etc... listed out.

This helps win best bid over wanna best who give them whirlpool appliances and Lowes special on floors etc... and MEPs in particular shows when someone is skimping on what they are putting in their house. In public bids if it is a wild variant they get board review, I won a state project for TFC that was under bid and under specified by another contractor a while back.

Your architect sounds like a great one, that's a great client service
 

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You guys are ‘t going to like this … i’m on the PM side of commercial construction. After the bid is awarded, we require the gc to submit a bid book … list of bids received from subs. No bid book, no contract. We encourage 3 bids for each trade, and encourage them taking the low bid, or be able to justify why not. We also have a mwob quota for the project. We don’t always get 3 sub bids, but we always get the backup.

But when you think about it … a good gc has 2 or 3 plumbers he always uses, ones that do good work and provide good service. You know the gc is going to get at least 2 bids any way, and will almost always take the low bid unless there is a time issue.
 

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You guys are ‘t going to like this … i’m on the PM side of commercial construction. After the bid is awarded, we require the gc to submit a bid book … list of bids received from subs. No bid book, no contract. We encourage 3 bids for each trade, and encourage them taking the low bid, or be able to justify why not. We also have a mwob quota for the project. We don’t always get 3 sub bids, but we always get the backup.

But when you think about it … a good gc has 2 or 3 plumbers he always uses, ones that do good work and provide good service. You know the gc is going to get at least 2 bids any way, and will almost always take the low bid unless there is a time issue.
I'd be curious what size projects you're talking about, unless it's big commercial construction I would never operate that way. As a home builder indo some light commercial I just use the same guy every time or if I have 2 of 1 trade like electricians plumbers or Hvac I get a number from the guy I want to use for that project. I don't bid them out. None of our subs are cheap either, or MEP subs are definitely in the top price bracket as far as I'm aware and our painter and drywallers definitely are the highest I'm aware of here

If it seems high then I ask why, usually a good reason

I wouldn't work for yall doenst sound like but your likely talking major scale projects, our projects residential or commercial are 300k - 3 million. I have a friend who was a superintendent and then in project management with Harvey Cleary and American Constructors and some of their war stories from the recession made me ill to my stomach almost, Get 5 bids and then beat down the lowest 3 and bid out again and then ask for "best bid" when that's all done with to make up for their 1% margin on the original. Lol sounds like hell on Earth.
 

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Hey all…
I’m new here to the forum.
We have a decent project we just bid on and the homeowner wants me to “at my leisure” hand over all of my sub contractor bids.
Never had this request and it makes me feel uneasy.
Thoughts?
I’m a small remodeling contractor. I have never been asked to do that, but I never would do that either.
you can make them a list of the subs bid minus the subs contact info. If they push too hard for contact info, like someone else replied, they may be trying to cut you out of the mix.
 

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Every single project I do the owner wants to see a price breakdown. The architect, the owner, and myself go over it as if they had some idea of what the numbers should be. Sometimes I'll get comments like "wow, $30k for stucco?". To which I say "yep".
The first couple of times I did this I was nervous about justifying my numbers, then I realized that it doesn't matter. The only numbers that matter are the allowances and the total.
 

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Every single project I do the owner wants to see a price breakdown. The architect, the owner, and myself go over it as if they had some idea of what the numbers should be. Sometimes I'll get comments like "wow, $30k for stucco?". To which I say "yep".
The first couple of times I did this I was nervous about justifying my numbers, then I realized that it doesn't matter. The only numbers that matter are the allowances and the total.
A breakdown isn't showing them bids, bothing good can come of that
 
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I would use the "I'm sorry but I cannot share my pricing. I have worked very hard to build these relationships with these subtrades and suppliers and because of that I receive preferred pricing which I pass onto you. However, for that reason I do not share my quotes as I do not want to put them in the uncomfortable position they would be in if their pricing became public and they have priced me less than other contractors for similar work."
 

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You guys are ‘t going to like this … i’m on the PM side of commercial construction. After the bid is awarded, we require the gc to submit a bid book … list of bids received from subs. No bid book, no contract. We encourage 3 bids for each trade, and encourage them taking the low bid, or be able to justify why not. We also have a mwob quota for the project. We don’t always get 3 sub bids, but we always get the backup.
You wanna know how often I bang my old lady too? Perhaps you'll encourage 3 times a week and expect me to justify why not. Maybe you wanna be backup.
 

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It's a knack, I'm the same way. I just saw an old hag who told me she'd ruin me and I'd never work on her street (prestigious street) again because I rolled my crew up, told her I'd send her deposit back and to kindly **** off - she had it coming but that's for another thread

I just met TxElectrician at my 9th contract on that Street, and her house is still ugly as sin and so is she. 😆

My dad, litterally a huge man admittedly, but extremely Profesional once told a guy that was hollering, without hollering himself - to stop, lower his voice ,change his tone. You speak to me with the same respect I am speaking to you. Is that clear?

Dude affirmed, it's clear

Then my dad told him to repeat it back to him, to be sure this guy understood the objective 😆 🤣

We not only finished that job but he's used us since and he's reffered us.

We've also, knock on wood, never been stiffed in 14 years
 
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