No need for the capped product. Moisture Shield has overcome even the alleged need. Only down side to MS is availability. They pitch a good game, have a quality product but have a hard time getting it in the warehouse. J.

My customers frown on anything that fades.

 

Moisture Shield is not fading on Me.

I don't see how any weather could be any worst than over here. But what the Hay everyone uses what they want anyhoo.


Open Eyes. OMG Rob uses cap product and NEVER has fade or anything else happen !!! NEVER a call back. It's like a wave on the ocean. Steel and Cap ,makes for a snap, never any crap takes the money home in a strap.


J.

 

Moisture Shield is not fading on Me.

I don't see how any weather could be any worst than over here. But what the Hay everyone uses what they want anyhoo.

Open Eyes. OMG Rob uses cap product and NEVER has fade or anything else happen !!! NEVER a call back. It's like a wave on the ocean. Steel and Cap ,makes for a snap, never any crap takes the money home in a strap.

J.

Well your wrong Jon... elevation plays a large role in UV rays but I've been over this with you before... burying your head in the sand and ignoring facts don't change the facts.

 

I've used Moistureshield decking on few projects, but they are pricing themselves out of business here. They want so much more that no lumberyard around here will stock it. Heard the same story from almost every yard here.

 

First thread in a long time I read the whole thing and feel like I learned something. Thanks deck ninjas!....

 

Stick around it might still turn into a pissing match

 

First thread in a long time I read the whole thing and feel like I learned something. Thanks deck ninjas!....

You and me both. I don't even do decks but I know a few tricks now!

 

Rob is bad, He never sad, Best deck builder the world ever had.

Lives in the Sky, where the heat is close, Everybody says he get the most... of all of Us, even on the Coast.

He be a sight to see when Hes picking on me, He calls it piss but its really not, it's the fumes from all that plastic snot that messes with his mind, makes Him unkind, He never backs down ,even with the Killer,but the truth be know they come from the same quiver . Both sharp pricks but we love em anyway cause without em the cap stock would go away.

JonMon

 

this thread is getting good. I'm snowed in and frozen today. It almost never get's old.

I tool use the hell out of MS I gotta tell ya I'm big fan. I built a 1500sf over the summer and the hide away clip grooves were off. They were favoring one side ( not centered) so when you flipped the board to the cleaner side the clips didn't exactly lines which a good amount of fussing. After calling and cursing there quality control dept they offered to replace the entire lot of them and throw me a bone for my troubles. This job required a 7story crane and could not it back for 2-3weeks. I passed on the replacement load manned up installed it. I sent a invoice for the additional hrs it took to install and then sent a check.

Also for Rob's sake cap or or any other prefab deck co won't warrant my ground deck I mean roof deck environment.

Austin deck how are they charging you down there? They mfg plant is in Arkansas and shipping can't be that much more then me.

 

Are you drunk?

 

with that beat i'd suspect TWP huffing..:balloon:

 

Jon, just because someone challenges you and tries to get you to see another product doesn't make them a prick.

I mentioned that you should get some samples of cap layer for yourself and put them through your own testing, you could at least do that. I don't understand why you won't. You don't still drive screws with a screw driver or drive all nails with a hammer so obviously you understand that sometimes a better product comes along. Just get some samples (or pm me your address and I'll ship you some) for your own testing.

I'll back up my talk with proof. This is fiberon horizon from mid 2008, there is no color loss (this was before the multi colored boards) sorry for the paint spilled on it. This was taken today so it's been exposed to the elements for 5.5 years and still looks the same as new.

 

Still looks the same as What ? New ?

Put a new one beside it.

Or not.

In fact I don't care what it looks like. Nor do I care if you tell me Moisture Shield breaks down because I know it doesn't not in the Sun or the Dirt or the Water if you dunk it down and leave it there.

Just don't like Rap. Fine !

J.

 

Still looks the same as What ? New ?

Put a new one beside it.

Or not.

In fact I don't care what it looks like. Nor do I care if you tell me Moisture Shield breaks down because I know it doesn't not in the Sun or the Dirt or the Water if you dunk it down and leave it there.

Just don't like Rap. Fine !

J.

I will next time I'm where this is stored. I don't keep outdated colors in my truck but I have some in storage, rest assured jonmon there is no color loss.

 

Here's a deck that's 4 years old

 

Here's a deck that's 4 years old

Fiberon guard rail?
Looks very nice with the top matching the deck, posts matching the boarder. Well done sir.

 

Fiberon guard rail? Looks very nice with the top matching the deck, posts matching the boarder. Well done sir.

Thank you Totes, it's all Trex railing with Trex Transcends capped decking.

 

With aTrex Seclusions fence in the background as well

 

I will next time I'm where this is stored. I don't keep outdated colors in my truck but I have some in storage, rest assured jonmon there is no color loss.

I agree the big companies are all going with Capp stock there must be a reason,or maybe Jon is just very lucky.

 

Still looks like plastic fake wood to me.

 

And the owner spent virtually no time or money on it since it was built...

 

Still looks like plastic fake wood to me.

That's because it is

 

I would not spend a dime on it either.

It's always " virtually ". I agree , it's for the most part, Just about, in effect though not in fact, almost wholly, just about.

It's too slick, too shinny , too just Fake looking no matter how much work is put into the install.

Moisture Shield is...warm, colorful, nice to walk on, feels good to touch and long lasting.

J.

 

Of course it's virtually no work, you still have to sweep it and hose it down, just like anything in life. Stop acting like my 7 year old with stupid little comments like that. Grow up and have an adult conversation Jon. And if you have the nuts to be proved wrong PM me your address and I'll ship you samples for YOU to test in your own special way.

HOWEVER the owner has spend ZERO time staining, sanding, scraping, or painting anything on it. They have paid ZERO dollars to have someone stain, sand, scrape, or paint it.

 

if we all waited for customers that want wood 98% of us would starve

 

hahaha…..:thumbup:

 

I took the Moisture Shield tour in 04, put down the decking that same year Yanni.

Really for a Man in this kind of work selling manmade had become mandatory , I resisted it as long as I could, but began with TimberTech because of a local distributer . Moisture Shield's sales found me on the web bad mouthing trex, a topic we had in common.

I say mandatory because of all the hype not because I believed the bs or liked the look of the stuff, it's just that the average Wallet did.

I liked the science involved, really liked the cooling down process/machine, so away I went. I don't offer anything else to my customers if they want manmade. Along with South American I pretty much have everything covered at the high end. For ecno projects the local 5/4 incense cedar fills in the blanks.

JonMon www.deckmastersllc.com

 

what are the enco projects? covered in deed.

 

Economical projects? It's a nice way of saying cheaper material, I think

 

I think it's what you sell at the kitchen table. However when your composite venders are sending you 15 or 20 leads a month it probably means they want composite. The first thing they say is they don't want the problems that are associated with wood. Most of the time the phone conversation goes like this. Hi, I got your name from such and such composite company and we want to get rid of our rotted wood deck. They said you would have some samples to show us...... Now at this point they most certainly are not looking for wood that I can tell. So I bring them what they called for.

 

i automatically included you in that 2%:blink:

 

It's been 3+ decades from the first Trex Deck I helped put in. As the "gruntnoid" I didn't really appreciated the carry it up the hill aspect. I did, however, become a fan at that point, of the low maintenance.
From then until now, the "Fake" decking has grown up, and I am a huge fan. The "opening miter" deck looks great, the owner is niggling.
The deck with the accent made my wife want to redo our 17 year old deck this spring. Fake deck for me, and it will be done in an easy weekend and I can forget about it until we move.
Great thread, gang.

 

Getting back to the subject of miters, there's a reason why half lap and mortise & tenon joinery were invented.

There's also a reason that raised panels are supposed to be able to "float" in the stiles and rails.

Wood moves. It has since the dawn of woodworking. Mitered corners are going to show the effects of the movement more than a square butted half lap or a M&T joint.

Even a mitered mortice and tenon joint will show movement under moderate changes in moisture content. Exterior is going to be tough to control, if not entirely impossible.

As for composite, thermal expansion alone will force the miters open at the long point.

 

It can be done and is very tricky with ipe. I've got one over a couple seasons that the miter hasn't busted loose. Screw placement, joint prep, and then adhesion technique all play big into it. When I have a customer who wants an unmoving miter on one of my decks I make sure they understand in the beginning how much MORE it will cost, it took me a long time to figure out how to do it, just like bending ipe... That $h!t ain't cheap.

 

Getting back to the subject of miters, there's a reason why half lap and mortise & tenon joinery were invented. There's also a reason that raised panels are supposed to be able to "float" in the stiles and rails. Wood moves. It has since the dawn of woodworking. Mitered corners are going to show the effects of the movement more than a square butted half lap or a M&T joint. Even a mitered mortice and tenon joint will show movement under moderate changes in moisture content. Exterior is going to be tough to control, if not entirely impossible. As for composite, thermal expansion alone will force the miters open at the long point.

So at this point the best way to handle this is to educate your customer in writing and at the kitchen table. If you wait until the miters open to tell them, they may think your BS them to get out of the fix. Communication is key to this business.