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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
It's true, it doesn't look bad in the pic's...but thinking about how much extra it probably cost over pressure treated, I see the customer's concern...I like the thought of intentionally opening up the miters...I'd run it by the customer first though, could look a little like a hack if they're not sure what & why you're doing it :)
We came up with the solution together, reviewing pictures of previous projects, they agreed. I used to do the "celebrated miter joint " all the time with cedar and redwood. (before I quit using cedar and
redwood.:no:)

As long as you hit it with a round over to match the deck board, it looks intentional and not hacky sack.
 

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If it's composite it's a non issue, the customer has it in writing and by the time I do the job it's beat into them, that all joints open and close with the temperatures. I just make sure my joints are cleanly cut.
 

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You said its messmer's. Anyone who has done more than 4 exotic decks has run into messmer's with moderate success. It in my opinion is one of the better penetrating sealers out there. It also should never be used to seal the under side of a deck, nor should any other sealer. Any adhesive is rendered useless from deck to framing, water intrusion is detrimental to the stability of the lumber after sealed on all surfaces, climate control shouldn't have any affect on look (with messmers) as long as it hasn't or wont rain in 12 hrs (I've found 6 to be sufficient) and last... What extra does it provide other than to say, "we do this"?

You do good work totes but listen to John, you were caught in two sales pitches the first one is telling you that only 2 companies import this material, second that it should be sealed all 4 sides.

Aljoma says they're the only importers of abaco decking... Well they're the only ones who import under that name because its really just massaranduba with a new patented title, I have to respectfully suspect this is what the company you buy from has told you... Is it mataverde?

The retention of water causing the joints to open on the outside could very well be because of the four sides being sealed. Most people who import the lumber haven't had much experience installing it, if they haven't seeked out the right real world experience then they know just enough to be dangerous. Messmers is good but will do nothing extra if sealed on all four sides, I've used it almost exclusively since '08 until this past year.

The only thing the high end exotics need is UV protection, otherwise less is more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
You said its messmer's. Anyone who has done more than 4 exotic decks has run into messmer's with moderate success. It in my opinion is one of the better penetrating sealers out there. It also should never be used to seal the under side of a deck, nor should any other sealer. Any adhesive is rendered useless from deck to framing, water intrusion is detrimental to the stability of the lumber after sealed on all surfaces, climate control shouldn't have any affect on look (with messmers) as long as it hasn't or wont rain in 12 hrs (I've found 6 to be sufficient) and last... What extra does it provide other than to say, "we do this"?

You do good work totes but listen to John, you were caught in two sales pitches the first one is telling you that only 2 companies import this material, second that it should be sealed all 4 sides.

Aljoma says they're the only importers of abaco decking... Well they're the only ones who import under that name because its really just massaranduba with a new patented title, I have to respectfully suspect this is what the company you buy from has told you... Is it mataverde?

The retention of water causing the joints to open on the outside could very well be because of the four sides being sealed. Most people who import the lumber haven't had much experience installing it, if they haven't seeked out the right real world experience then they know just enough to be dangerous. Messmers is good but will do nothing extra if sealed on all four sides, I've used it almost exclusively since '08 until this past year.

The only thing the high end exotics need is UV protection, otherwise less is more.
Thank you. It's very true what you say about conflicting information regarding hardwood decking. The same darn species is called 5
different things depending on origin and grade.
I will try to keep my eyes and ears open..don't doubt my respect for John, you,or any other professional on this forum. The only reason I'm here is to learn...be the best I can be with what I am doing.
I agree, exotic don't need much. When I first got going I would leave the finish/seal/stain up to the homeowners. Some would never do it, and a few years later....not so bad!!!, a few checks, silver surface..but I could still clean it up and make it look new again.
I like Messemers. It's easy. It's dirt cheap. It doesn't build up. but thats a whole different matter.
I'm not big time but no spring chicken...just doing what has proven effective for me. Things that work great in my dry climate in Bend, totally different in Portland or Hood river where it rains sideways 8 months a year.
I'll tell you what though... if it's square, even a 5x5 deck..Im framing it it steel. I blame this on the frame more than the skin.
 

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totes said:
That's pretty much the remedy I've decided on. I'm going to pop the border pieces, cut the miters back, round over the edges and have a "celebrated" miter joint with an intentional 3/16-1/4" spacing. This way I can reuse the pieces, I will just fill the biscuit hole w pud....or 1/2 biscuit. The stairs miters aren't that bad, leaving those as is. The issue was boarder pieces. A lot of great responses, real food for thought. In the future I may eliminate the closed miter joint all together. They've been holding up pretty well with this material....until this. Thanks all!~:thumbsup:
That is exactly what I'd do too.
 

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Hello All... here’s my 2cents.

never never never seal all four sides .period.
biscuits are ok but you know I just can’t resist the Festie domino with there african mahogany wold of have the best. Hahaha.
I’m with Cali on the FYI on Joints to customers.
I’m with Jon on all of it. Especially the glue and sand with magic dust.
Take apart and round over with 1/8 put it back with a gap of 1/8 - 3/16. Never leave a tight joint they only last about day or two.

Or you can be like me no huss no fuss and just don’t bother doing miters. That’s right no miters. Imagine that. We square off single or double picture frame on composite, and exotics or no pict frame at all

Good Luck New Guy:thumbsup:
 

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CITY DECKS INC said:
Hello All... here’s my 2cents. never never never seal all four sides .period. biscuits are ok but you know I just can’t resist the Festie domino with there african mahogany wold of have the best. Hahaha. I’m with Cali on the FYI on Joints to customers. I’m with Jon on all of it. Especially the glue and sand with magic dust. Take apart and round over with 1/8 put it back with a gap of 1/8 - 3/16. Never leave a tight joint they only last about day or two. Or you can be like me no huss no fuss and just don’t bother doing miters. That’s right no miters. Imagine that. We square off single or double picture frame on composite, and exotics or no pict frame at all Good Luck New Guy:thumbsup:
Most composites I use are the capped and the ends aren't usually up against a fence. The end of a capped composite looks worse the an "untight" miter. IMO. After looking at a lot of your decks City, it seems like looking at the ends, is a non issue because of walls and fences.
 

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This is the time of year when wood in the outdoors, in Portland, OR has the highest moisture content of the entire year (17% EMC).

Those who said the wood was installed "too dry" are probably right. However, if you cut those miters to an even gap this time of year, the inside of the miters will show a larger gap by next July when the EMC drops back down below 12%.

My bet is that by July, the gap will be open evenly without you having to cut anything. If you wait until April or May the EMC will be about average for the year, that is when you have the best chance to do something when the wood is in the middle of it's range of motion.

Here is a reference for EMC data:

http://books.google.com/books?id=vG...m moisture content&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false
 

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Most composites I use are the capped and the ends aren't usually up against a fence. The end of a capped composite looks worse the an "untight" miter. IMO. After looking at a lot of your decks a City, it seems like looking at the ends, is a non issue because of walls and fences.
your right. we use composite and the ends are lil brighter then the tops but it blends in about a month or so. We do what we can to avoid walking onto your deck and having a naked but joist slap you in the face. We do what is possible to turn away so they don't pop. But at the end of the day it is what is and most customers and we love our customers don't even have a clue of joints but or miter they want a good clean job and that means your cuts including. At least I don't have miters that are busting out. Also since we build up your on the ground walking up to it. You step on it our decks and really can't see the outer edging unless you extend over the railings. You guys in the burbs build a lot lower then I.
 

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Most composites I use are the capped and the ends aren't usually up against a fence. The end of a capped composite looks worse the an "untight" miter. IMO. After looking at a lot of your decks City, it seems like looking at the ends, is a non issue because of walls and fences.
Get some paint made to touch up the ends, just use something from KWAL or sherwin williams. Or do the 3/8" edge detail.



We RARELY do a picture frame anymore (did 1 in 2013, none in 2012, 1 in 2011)
 

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Uhhhh...it's wood and it's ourdoors. What did you expect it to do. Stay perfect year after year?
 

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Get some paint made to touch up the ends, just use something from KWAL or sherwin williams. Or do the 3/8" edge detail.



We RARELY do a picture frame anymore (did 1 in 2013, none in 2012, 1 in 2011)
Why no picture frame detail anymore? We've never done it and after seeing all the pics on here I'm really wanting to do it on one?
 

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Picture frames are to add visual interest to boring monotone decking like below:


When the decking looks good all by itself it really doesn't add as much.
That's a very nice looking boring deck. :thumbup:

75% of our decks at PT at this point. Maybe one day we will focus more on the upsell there. Got to talk to Dad and get him interested.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Uhhhh...it's wood and it's ourdoors. What did you expect it to do. Stay perfect year after year?
The client did.


I expected a call in 2028 for a new deck.
 
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