[Xtrememtnbiker]

We have a client wanting us to do built in cabinetry. This would be our first job of this size and I'm looking for some advice. I drew up these designs based on Dad's meeting with the client, there might be some small changes but this is the concept.

The opening is actually a door, the dimensions are just the edge of casing. The plan would be building all this in my garage and spraying them with an airless. I understand how to build cabinets, but my problem is how would I build a wall to wall setup like this, offsite, finished, and bring it in and install it.

They will be built with 3/4" Birch sides and shelves with Poplar edge banding and face frame material. The best solution I've come up with is to split the stile's on the center joints where instead of being 2 1/8" they would be 1 1/16". I'm not sure what that joint might look like though... I would leave the stile's longer on the outside cabinets where they meet the wall to scribe it till the center cabinet slides in perfectly and then attach everything.

Is that a proper way of doing it or not?

Also, when attaching built in's like this, is it desirable to not be able to see any screws? If so, what's the procedure for fastening with cabinets that have already been finished?

I've installed plenty of kitchen cabinets just not done a lot of building them, and I realized built in's are a little different look but similar concept I guess. I had planned to screw them together behind the face frame at the front with white trim head screws and to the wall underneath bottom shelves and on top of top shelves where you'd have to go looking to find screws.

Any criticism, advice, mocking, etc is welcome. Less of the mocking is prefered... :laughing:

 

[mako1]

I have done many of them.On the center style where your joint is going to be ,set your plywood in 1/8" on each side from the inside edge of the stiles from center where they will meet.Unless the cabinet sits completely plumb you may have to scribe some here.
You will have to screw thru the face frame instead of behind it.You won't get a clean joint if you don't.Countersink and place the screws on the wall side of the stile.They will be less noticeable.
You can make everything square in the shop but it won't be on the job so plan for it everywhere you can.

 

[Gus Dering]

Check out this thread about sharing stiles.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f13/two-cabinets-sharing-common-stile-58744/

When going wall to wall, we will leave one stile loose so it can be scribed and installed after all the other boxes are installed. If you really don't want to see any type of field joint, you can always sand them smooth and do the paint touch up on site. But we get it really close and let it be. We have never had a complaint that there is a slight groove on those joints. It all comes together pretty nicely.

 

[Xtrememtnbiker]

Check out this thread about sharing stiles.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f13/two-cabinets-sharing-common-stile-58744/

When going wall to wall, we will leave one stile loose so it can be scribed and installed after all the other boxes are installed. If you really don't want to see any type of field joint, you can always sand them smooth and do the paint touch up on site. But we get it really close and let it be. We have never had a complaint that there is a slight groove on those joints. It all comes together pretty nicely.

I haven't read the whole thread, I see it's quite long. I'll try and get to that later tonight. But what do you mean by loose stile? I'm planning this as 3 boxes and using the method your describing, it would seem that I would have 1 stile on each of the outer boxes and 2 stiles on the middle box.

By loose stile do you mean that I would have no stiles on one, the right one for example? So I would put the left cabinet in, scribe the stile to the wall, put the center in with two stiles, and put the right one in without any stiles? The left edge of the right cabinet gets it's stile from the right edge of the center. Then after everything is leveled, shimmed, scribed, installed, etc, you scribe the last stile on the right hand side to fit in perfect.

If that's the case, what method of attachment would you use? I'm planning on pocket screws for the rest of the rails and stiles right now but that wouldn't be an option for the last one.

Shelves are fixed so I'm planning to dado the cabinet sides with a router on my track before I break down the sheet goods.

I had assumed for my wood edge banding that I would glue and nail it on now I'm wondering if the front of the shelves being flush with the face frame is an issue if they're not attached to the face frame as far as movement.

 

[tjbnwi]

Most important things;

Make sure that the hypotenuse when you go to tilt the unit up is short enough to clear the ceiling. Make sure the height is short enough to go through the room door

Think about- building, finish, disassemble, load parts into room, reassemble. Sometimes it is easier due to room access through the home.

Tom

(Did you resolve your rollout issue?)

 

[Xtrememtnbiker]

Most important things;

Make sure that the hypotenuse when you go to tilt the unit up is short enough to clear the ceiling. Make sure the height is short enough to go through the room door

Think about- building, finish, disassemble, load parts into room, reassemble. Sometimes it is easier due to room access through the home.

Tom

(Did you resolve your rollout issue?)

Checked that in Sketch Up when designing. Thanks.

My problem is lack of experience and knowledge of different ways of doing all this stuff. I may email you again if you don't mind...

I assume so? Dad hasn't said anything about it. I keep forgetting to ask.

 

[Gus Dering]

I haven't read the whole thread, I see it's quite long. I'll try and get to that later tonight. But what do you mean by loose stile? I'm planning this as 3 boxes and using the method your describing, it would seem that I would have 1 stile on each of the outer boxes and 2 stiles on the middle box. By loose stile do you mean that I would have no stiles on one, the right one for example? So I would put the left cabinet in, scribe the stile to the wall, put the center in with two stiles, and put the right one in without any stiles? The left edge of the right cabinet gets it's stile from the right edge of the center. Then after everything is leveled, shimmed, scribed, installed, etc, you scribe the last stile on the right hand side to fit in perfect. If that's the case, what method of attachment would you use? I'm planning on pocket screws for the rest of the rails and stiles right now but that wouldn't be an option for the last one. Shelves are fixed so I'm planning to dado the cabinet sides with a router on my track before I break down the sheet goods. I had assumed for my wood edge banding that I would glue and nail it on now I'm wondering if the front of the shelves being flush with the face frame is an issue if they're not attached to the face frame as far as movement.

I would start on say the left and that first box would have the left stile only. Scribe it to the wall looking ahead so the far right stile will be the same width.

The middle box only has the left stile and you simply apply it over the left end of the first box.

The last box has the left stile already attached and you apply it over the middle box the same way.

The right stile of the last box is the loose one. It can be scribed to the wall while the box is already fastened. The joints at the top and bottom rail connection will be visible to a trained eye but done well it is quite acceptable as is the joints at the other two box to box connection.

Those right ends that have the stile applied over get masked off for the finish process. Remove the tape apply some glue and press the stile over it. Pop a few wire nails if you feel the need.

If you're planning on fixed shelves, consider setting those back just a little. Maybe a 1/16th or more. Those joints will look better if they aren't in plane.

Leo has different methods that work well for him. But this way works very well for us.

I hope this helps.

 

[Xtrememtnbiker]

I would start on say the left and that first box would have the left stile only. Scribe it to the wall looking ahead so the far right stile will be the same width.

The middle box only has the left stile and you simply apply it over the left end of the first box.

The last box has the left stile already attached and you apply it over the middle box the same way.

The right stile of the last box is the loose one. It can be scribed to the wall while the box is already fastened. The joints at the top and bottom rail connection will be visible to a trained eye but done well it is quite acceptable as is the joints at the other two box to box connection.

Those right ends that have the stile applied over get masked off for the finish process. Remove the tape apply some glue and press the stile over it. Pop a few wire nails if you feel the need.

If you're planning on fixed shelves, consider setting those back just a little. Maybe a 1/16th or more. Those joints will look better if they aren't in plane.

Leo has different methods that work well for him. But this way works very well for us.

I hope this helps.

Yes, that helps a lot. I think you just covered a large bulk of the things that I wasn't clear on.

I will plan to set the shelves back maybe 1/8. I want it to look intentional not like a mistake.
Because it's a shared stile, how do you attach the boxes together?
Just screwing through the end panels into each other right up close to the stile?

 

[Xtrememtnbiker]

For the finishing, like I mentioned earlier, I will be spraying with an airless with a fine finish tip. I know that's not the way cabinet guys do it, but they won't be paying cabinet guy pricing either. Cause... I'm not a cabinet guy yet. :laughing:

So my plan right now for figuring out my hours for this project is spraying sanding sealer, then primer, then 2 coats of Pro Classic Water Based.

Sound reasonable?

 

[Gus Dering]

Yes, that helps a lot. I think you just covered a large bulk of the things that I wasn't clear on. I will plan to set the shelves back maybe 1/8. I want it to look intentional not like a mistake. Because it's a shared stile, how do you attach the boxes together? Just screwing through the end panels into each other right up close to the stile?

You can hide a few screws behind the nosing of the fixed shelves for fastening the boxes together.

Attaching to the wall, use finish head screws just under the bottom shelf and just over the top shelf. Those two spots are usually not easily seen. The latex paint you are using is prett easily touched up over the screws too.

 

[Xtrememtnbiker]

You can hide a few screws behind the nosing of the fixed shelves for fastening the boxes together. Attaching to the wall, use finish head screws just under the bottom shelf and just over the top shelf. Those two spots are usually not easily seen. The latex paint you are using is prett easily touched up over the screws too.

Thanks for all your help Gus. I appreciate it greatly.

 

[alboston]

For the finishing, like I mentioned earlier, I will be spraying with an airless with a fine finish tip. I know that's not the way cabinet guys do it, but they won't be paying cabinet guy pricing either. Cause... I'm not a cabinet guy yet. :laughing:

So my plan right now for figuring out my hours for this project is spraying sanding sealer, then primer, then 2 coats of Pro Classic Water Based.

Sound reasonable?

If your spraying with an airless, try Benjamin Moore Advance. It is the best stuff latex wise I have sprayed. Goes on very smooth and hardens nicely. Just practice a little as it tends to run if put on too heavy.

 

[rrk]

If your spraying with an airless, try Benjamin Moore Advance. It is the best stuff latex wise I have sprayed. Goes on very smooth and hardens nicely. Just practice a little as it tends to run if put on too heavy.

Same here, I think it is way way better than ProClassic. Very consistant, hardens faster than proclassic, lays down very nice.

 

[Xtrememtnbiker]

If your spraying with an airless, try Benjamin Moore Advance. It is the best stuff latex wise I have sprayed. Goes on very smooth and hardens nicely. Just practice a little as it tends to run if put on too heavy.

But don't I have to try both to see? :laughing:

I've heard lots of good stuff about Pro Classic which is why I was going to give it a shot... Decisions, decisions...

 

[Gus Dering]

Our finisher is using the Advance on stuff with a brush stroke. It seems to be a very good paint.

 

[Xtrememtnbiker]

Well, we got the job. They've added 1 cabinet in the wall to wall run and 1 cabinet to the left of the door. I really excited about getting to do this. Kinda nervous too... Hopefully I'll be able to report back with a successful build and install and happy clients.

 

[MSLiechty]

For the finishing, like I mentioned earlier, I will be spraying with an airless with a fine finish tip. I know that's not the way cabinet guys do it, but they won't be paying cabinet guy pricing either. Cause... I'm not a cabinet guy yet. :laughing:

So my plan right now for figuring out my hours for this project is spraying sanding sealer, then primer, then 2 coats of Pro Classic Water Based.

Sound reasonable?

I spray target WB white lacquer with an airless and .10 fine finish tip. Works fine. same spray schedule as you posted

 

[rrk]

Target will match any BM color
http://finishingzone.com/

This dries real fast and is great to work with also

 

[mgb]

The local cabinet co. will mount a stile to one unit, and have it overlap the next one upon install. Granted the stiles are made to be proud on each unit by about 1/16".

Can't tell they're not all one unit when it's finished.

 

[Xtrememtnbiker]

Target will match any BM color
http://finishingzone.com/

This dries real fast and is great to work with also

So I'm very new to the world of cabinetry and finishing. I know I'll have to be dead accurate with everything and use jigs and such but I'm confident that I can build a solid cabinet. The finishing is where I'm less confident. I've been spraying pro classic water base through an airless with a 210 or 310 fine finish tip and I honestly was fairly pleased with the results. It wasn't the kind of finish that comes on a kitchen cabinet though. I assume that's a lacquer?

I'm would love to hear input on what finish you would spray on these cabinets. In the past, we would have just brushed latex paint on it. Never built one but when repainting a house they've always been brush finished and that's what we go back with.

Would a lacquer with an HVLP yield a better looking result and still be able to be a color other than white? My dad said they are thinking grey and green as far as the colors. I'm going over tomorrow to make measurements for the project and can talk further about colors with the client.