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Crowded deck corner.

7K views 44 replies 17 participants last post by  pappagor 
#1 ·
I'm having a brain fart today, trying to design a deck for my buddy. We need to use a flush beam for the outside as there isn't enough head room for a standard post and beam without making it feel crowded.

This corner needs to get a post and then I figure two railing posts as that's what's going to look best on the other outside corners. The posts are garapa so surface mount probably isn't an option.

I usually notch and bolt posts but have no problem with using hardware. I just don't see how a hardware connection would work in this situation.

My fallback option is to use a couple more posts and a triple 2x6 beam but it's living space so having a 9' beam span would be a lot nicer than 4.5'.
 

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#5 ·
The local BO's will want either a notched and through bolted post/beam connection or hardware brackets on both sides of the beam. I don't see how I can use the hardware in the weird corner and I'd have to bolt the railing post through it, but that part can be handled by drilling through the steel. Any ideas?

This is a good example of engineering the structure AFTER it's been designed vs. doing both at the same time.:rolleyes:

If I can't get an elegant solution to this PITA, I'm just going to recommend we slip a triple 2x6 beam in there. I've never been a big fan of flush framing but it would be appropriate for this deck. They're spending close to $200k on the exterior for the back yard. Pools, patios, pergolas, the whole shebang.
 
#8 ·
if you have to roll with what you presented Ethan, then "Thru Locks" would make the install much easier. If you want to get fancy... Do it Gregs' way and plug your hardware :thumbsup: You could even use the corner bay to do some trick joinery (for $extra$ of course)
 
#9 · (Edited)
Does the inside ply of the beam need to have full bearingor can it be kept back to allow the 4x4 to be notched? Or make it a triple and keep the center ply short.

We can't notch our posts for guardrails so I have never had this situation before.

Or a spline or other hidden bracket.
http://www.decksgo.com/titan-post-anchor.html
 
#10 ·
I can't notch the railing posts. I drew them set back from the corners 7.5" and will do it similar to what Greg presented with two balusters in between the posts. It actually solves a problem on another corner where I had two posts that were a little too close together for my liking.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I don't do any exotic wood decks so forgive me if this is naive, but could you just pour piers above grade and set a post anchor in the pier and then just use a continuous 4"x4" garapa posts from top of pier through the inside of the rim joist?

Another option would be to use a nice decorative post sleeve and then have it as an accent color.

Here is a picture of my first idea - bottom left picture

http://everlastingdecking.com/learn/wood-decking/garapa
 
#12 ·
Forgive me if I'm going a little against the grain here. (I'm not trying to high jack your post) a little clarification. Why can you not notch a post?

Can you use a 2x4 and anchor that as your railing post? It will meet the code 200# test here.

If so, why can you not notch a 4x4?

Can you notch a 8x8?

Does the code strictly say no notching in your area?
 
#30 · (Edited)
There is nowhere in the code says that you cannot notch 2x4 post on the guard railing. What you refering too is a picture based on the study conducted by a 3d party. Composite posts YES, they cannot be notched and that is in manufacturer installation guide.

With that said, if your railing style has top and bottom rails, its not a good idea to notch the post, because the entire span of the railing is dependent on the 2 posts at each end and you will have more flex in it (that doesn't mean it will not meet the 200lb lateral force test, but I just wouldn't do it).
If you only use top rail and fasten your spindles to the top rail and the joist at the bottom, and you using a cap (which acts as strong back) the entire length of the railing span has excellent lateral support and it easily exceed 200lb test, even meet a 500lb test, without relying much on the post itself.

In the old days I remember we would flip a 2x6 diagonally and nail spindles to the 2x6 and the joist without using any posts and you would have a solid railing meeting the code.

Today railings done that way and that is always been an industry standard practice not only on the exterior but interior railings also and notching the posts is very common way of doing things on stairs, landings, decks, etc and it's 100% code compliant. Here is a railing in my house done the same way, notched post and spindles attached to the 2x6 oak handrail and spindles sit on the floor surface on top of a finish nail and that is a solid railing along the entire span.

Here is an example.
 

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#26 ·
I do use thruloks. Tons of them! The issue is that if the post carries through to the top of the beam and gets thruloks, then the two railing posts will need to be bolted through the beam AND the post. It's an odd angle and too far a reach for thruloks, not to mention that I'd have 6 bolts passing through that post.
 
#33 ·
no 2x4 or a notched 4x4 will pass a design bending of lumber analysts for a 200 ft lb load that is what the code is based on.
very few wood railings built on a wood deck can pass the 1/4 inch deflection at 200 ft lb at the post or at mid span of the railing. that is why it is not inforced to the letter of the code.
if they would treat oak 4x4 post for deck railing we would have a better chance to pass code.:thumbsup:
 
#43 ·
For a manufacturer to meet 200 LB test, they have to apply 2.5 times the acceptable load pressure onto the railing which is 500LB for a period of 24 hr and after that the railing should recover not less than 75% of its max deflection after the load is removed. How they do this tests, I'm not sure but if they only do the test on the post itself that should be done according to ASTM requirement I would assume.

If this test conducted on the Field built railing, per IBC requirement, you have to apply 2 times the approved max load (200 LB) which will be 400 LB along the top of the railing at any point for the same amount of time (24hr period) and achieve the same results.
 
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